Honing School - Honemeisters & Newbies Unite!

Anybody have some oldies but goodies that could enlist in my honing offensive. I haven't had time for the bay and don't want the GD army. Happy to pay reasonable Enlisting fees...These soldiers might be going on a one way mission;-)

John

 

Have you visited my shop on Etsy?


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Nice straights over there Castleshave! I was looking for some in more of a rough state. Don't want to distract too much, please PM me if anyone can help me out.

Thanks so much!

 

What is your Etsy shop? I'm always looking for razors to use and well, possible one way missions, LOL

 

https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/CastleShave


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It has been some time since I sent my first honing experiment off to Glen @gssixgun for his evaluation. He sent me some pictures with comments. I'll allow him to contribute if he desires.

Basically I think I successfully set a bevel although I did leave a few defects. (couple of chips and a hook on the heel, which he cleaned up for me)

I'm not sure that I can't maintain my edges for a very long time using 12k naniwa, 1 & 1/2 micron pastes on balsa stops, and leather stropping.

Nice to know I didn't bugger anything up. Since I have done knife sharpening, I tried to find that sensation of smooth, even cutting on my strokes.

Many thanks to Glen for all the contributions I have found he made over the years. It has helped immensely.

 

Good job Edison! And yes with a pasted balsa strop and a 12k you should have no problem maintaining an edge for a long time.

 

FWIW.....
I've been getting knives and sharpening supplies here for years.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com

I really like their 3" x 11" magnetic mount balsa and stand. Extra magnetic mount balsa are $9 and have nice storage bags.

I recommend anyone to check them out. Great folks!

 

I have had some time to hone this week and wanted to try a few things out. Long post I’m afraid - apologies.

As practice I decided to work on some cooking knives that have seen better days. In the kitchen drawer I have two Chinese chef’s knives and an ageing Sabatier which hasn’t been sharpened properly for twenty years and the edge of which had become so messed up that it looked serrated. I bought a couple of bevel guides, and, using @gssixgun ’s methods for removing chips removed the serrations and reset the bevels on DMT bench plates and Shaptons. They came up like knew. Heartened I worked the same way on a large Sheffield carving knife which took a fantastic edge.

Moving onto hones, I took the various advice about the Naniwa large lapping stone I have. Checking it with a straight edge it was clearly dished. It lapped flat nicely. I was pleased with this. Little did I know the mistake I had made - more on that later.

I have two Charnley Forest stones, a Dalmore Blue and a Water of Ayre. Decided to lap the Charnleys and the Dalmore. I checked them all with a straight edge. They were all supposed to be lapped before I got them, but were all slightly convex. I thought nothing of this and spent AGES lapping them perfectly flat. My fifteen year old son was curious and helped for a time - I might make a convert of him yet.

The Dalmore smelt a little of oil, so did a nondescript stone I picked up and a very small Escher which was completely thick with oil. These I soaked in bike degreaser over night.

One Charnley Forest I have been using with water, the other I wanted to set up with oil. Taking @Billyfergie ’s advice I acquired some Bisley gun oil.

Next onto razors themselves - first two Bokers - a stainless and an Elite. The stainless just needed a refresh which I did on the oil Charnley Forest. It was a bit meh at first. Some research and people were recommending a lighter oil, so I diluted the Gun Oil with a little WD40 and it worked a treat. I really like the combination of the two oils and will experiment with these further.

The Elite was brand new, factory edge, sealed in packet. I set the bevel on a Naniwa Chosera, originally intending to work through a synthetic progression, but the natural stones were calling me. My Dragon’s Tongue is the only stone that has been used so far, but based on conversations with @DaltonGang I wanted to try my purple Llyn Melynllyn. Progression: Naniwa 1K —> Dragon’s Tongue —> Llyn Melynllyn. For the two Welsh stones, with slurry, diluting gradually to water. When I finished with the Llyn Melynllyn, and don’t ask me why I did this, I went back to the Dragon’s Tongue and started again, then back to the Lluyn Melynllyn. I really don’t know why, but instinctively it just feels right to do this. @DaltonGang - I would appreciate any advice on working with the Welsh stones.

I finished on the the water Charnley Forest and the CrOx / FerOx. Shaved like a dream, as did the stainless. The natural stones were a joy to use. They give such nice feedback, and cut slowly so I have time to even out my clumsy strokes.

The third razor was my favourite TI. A big 7/8 Spartacus which still has the factory edge and has only had pastes. It had developed micro chips. My intent was not to use the full @gssixgun approach to remove them, but to lightly reset the bevel and hope that would remove them, given how small they were.

This is where the trouble started.

I swear I only honed lightly on the Naniwa 1K but very very quickly the bevel went sideways. On one side a very pronounced smile started to appear, on the other a frown. I panicked. I love this razor. I did not want wreck it or make it ugly. I tried taping, but this made no difference. I tried taping to encourage a smile - but that didn’t seem to help even the frown, and then I tried taping differently on both sides. Still nothing. I can only believe at this stage that the spine bows, and yet the razor passes the wobble test.

It scared me how quickly the Naniwa took metal from the razor. I am so ashamed of my honing work that I don’t even want to show a picture of the razor at the moment, but suspect I am going to have to send this one to one of the experts on this forum to do something with. It’s my first disaster / failure - and it’s on a a razor I love.

The bevel itself looks good at the edge under magnification, but moving back from the edge it’s not straight and very ugly. I am tempted to run it through a progression with the bevel as is and see how it shaves. Then go back in future when I am more experienced to do something to clean up the bevel.

After a day recovering from the shock, I decided to slow things right down. I wanted to try setting a bevel with a natural. Based on research and input from various places it seemed like the Dalmore Blue might work with a heavy slurry.

Researching bevel setting with natural stones, I came across this video: from the superior shave and suddenly regretted lapping those convex stones so flat. I also wished I had kept the Naniwa lapping stop dished, to use it to lap my stones convex.

I chose another TI. Crazy you might think - but I wanted to start from scratch on a similar razor with a completely different method. Like the other, this had only been set up using pastes, so I would be putting a new bevel on it. I have no slurry stone, so I used a coarse DMT plate. This was challenging. The slurry tended to stick to the plate rather than the stone and when thick enough, dried out very quickly. After a bit of experimentation I found that it was better to wet the stone and leave dried slurry on the DMT. Eventually I found that soaking the stone, building the slurry, honing was the right sequence, and I had to do this a number of times. The slow gently work with the natural stone produced a beautifully even, straight, clean bevel under magnification.

I used the Dragons’ Tooth —-> Llyn Melynllyn sequence again - running it through twice as before but this time finishing with an odd green stone I picked up cheaply.

The result was really good. I got a fabulous shave from it yesterday. The one slight problem was that I taped the spine. Seems like the factory didn’t. So now there is my bevel, and the remains of TI’s behind it. It seems to make no difference to the shaving performance but I guess I should go back and put a bevel on without tape?

I shouldn’t need to set any more bevels on my current razors. I am going to pick up some clunkers and work on them next.

Score: 4 Knife successes, 3 razor successes, one razor disaster.

Lesson’s learnt:

Working with thick slurry without a slurry stone.
Removing chips (at least on knives for the moment)
Bevel setting on a natural
Welsh Stone progression
Working with 2 inch wide stones

 

It sounds like the Naniwa is a real fast cutting stone. If that is the case, then try not to use much pressure. if you are creating a smile, or a frown, while bevel setting, then you have gone waaaay past the typical bevel setting. Slow down, use little pressure, and when you are close to the bevel being set, use no pressure. Also, while you are learning, always use tape. This might save you a few razors. I always use tape, even though I've honed a lot. I just like the feel, or, I just got use to the feel of the tape.

 

I thought I was going slow / light touch. I guess I wasn't. And the thing is I set the bevel on another razor at the same time with the same stone without any issues. I also can't seem to correct it - meaning : using the same amount of pressure I don't seem to be removing metal like I did when the problem emerged.

The blade was highly highly polished, so I wonder whether the unevenness was already there and I just revealed it. - the lesson from that is that I should inspect the blade in great detail before starting so I know exactly what changes I am causing. I think I am going to enforce a regime of examinating a blade and taking notes, then putting the blade away before coming back to it to hone at a later date. That will force me to slow down and take a more considered approach.

The other thing is - despite all the fans here (who's opinions I fully respect), maybe the Naniwa is too advanced for me right now. In comparison I found it much easier to set a very precise bevel with the Dalmore Blue. There was a problem spot on that razor and I could feel the steel loosen up at that point once it evened out - even before checking under magnification. I don't seem to be able to read the Naniwas in the same way - although I know others can from watching videos of people using them.

BTW, It is not a true frown or smile at this stage, just the start of a bevel pattern. I am going to try to really work out why the bevel pattern is happening before I do anything else I think.

And thanks for the advice - it's helped me reexamine what I did.

 

Wonky bevels on a modern TI, whooda thunk it? Lol.

I have 4 TIs, two have even bevels, two do not; they're not evenly ground at the edge so the bevel is not the same width. You can look closely in bright light and see the waviness in the steel above the bevel. Alas, if this is your case, a wide and uneven bevel can be expected. They shave like a million bucks though.

I'm honing without tape. If the razors came through the Invisible Edge/TI UK, Jamie Mahoney (celticcrusader) honed them with probably 1 layer of electrical tape. The tape prevents noticeable spinewear and helps keep the bevels narrow. If you're having trouble bringing the edge up on slow stones, you might want to add a layer of electrical tape, and this will help the bevel appearance too.

Sounds like you're making progresss, good luck with the TI!

Cheers, Steve

 

Here's an image of my Spartacus bevel, honed without tape. You can see the uneveness in the bevel. The other side is considerably better, though the bevels are still wider than you would expect on a razor of this price.

Cheers, Steve

 

Well that's a little comforting at least. Thank you for sharing the picture.

 

I have Honed Many TI Razors..Including a Number of Spartacus Models..All had 1st Class Factory Pre Set Bevels..1st Class Grinding..A Naniwa 1 K Stone is Probably the Best Bevel Setter on the Planet Today...Well with Experience..

The Spartacus is Quite Hard Steel..They Should Shave from the Naniwa 1 K Bevel Stone..Now this is IMPORTANT..TI Razors like the Spartacus NEED EXTRA Attention ALL the Way through the Progression..From the Factory..Why ???...They have Never Been Honed through a Progression & they Require Extra Attention on the 1st Hone Job...Simply because they are Kinda Hard French Steel..Compared to Most Razors..

In Other Words..They are NOT Harder to Hone..BUT..They Can and Will Catch Out the Inexperienced..Thats All I Can Say...Other than that they Hone Up Like a Dream...But..They Do Need 100 % Attention on the Hone through Every Stage of the Progression..The Bevel Needs Refined with Care all the Way through the Progression Even on the Finishing Stone...Once thats Done from the Factory they Hone Up like Any Other Razor..


These are 1st Class Shavers the Spartacus in Particular...I Would Like One for My Own Collection After Honing So Many of Em..

Billy..

 

I bought a relatively new on a BST a while back and have spent a bit of time on cheap $8 eBay razors in order to gain some honing skills. Would it be smarter to just send the thing out to @gssixgun and then refresh myself, or should I try to bevel set and hone it myself and send it off to Glen for feedback/rehone as needed? Thoughts?

 

Glen will Bevel Set it & Put a Superb Edge on for Ya..Probably the Best Advice I Can Offer..After that they Refresh Hone Like Any Other Razor..It Wont Need a Refresh Hone for a Very Long Time with Due Care & Attention..They have a Very Versatile Shaving Edge..

They are Serious Whisker Whackers...And Comfortable Shavers..I Am Not a Particular Fan of Current SRs..TI Spartacus Razors are One of the Exceptions for Me Personally..Glen will Put a Superb Edge on on it For Ya..The More You Play around with it the More Likely You are to Mess it Up..The Bevel Area that is..Hope that Helps..

Billy..

 

It’s a good idea, all the razors Glen honed for me had wonderful sharp edges. Tell Glen what you want in an edge, you are like me and like them very sharp. Then it is easy to maintain them.

 

Decided to take a second run at my father-in-law’s grandad’s razor using a very light touch. Started at bevel set at on the 1K, and progressed t0 4, 8, & 12. Then 20 strops on CrO2 and 100 on leather. Looks good under the microscope. Tomorrow’s shave will determine if it was a success or heads off with my TI to @gssixgun.