We already know they have a knife. It wouldn't take much to slit the throat and bleed it out. Hell crush the scull with a rock, just don't let them suffer.
You can only take that so far and then, absolutely, one set of morals is vastly superior to another. You can not use moral or cultural differences to excuse acts like sending 12 year old boys off to war, circumcising young girls with a rusty knife and no anesthetic, or strapping explosives round a kid's waist and sending them into a crowded supermarket. I'm not putting skinning live animals into that category, but I'm also not willing to accept that anything goes if you wave a cultural or religious flag. Cheers Jeremy
Again, to a point. I don't think that it is acceptable, using moral or cultural excuses, to inflict excruciating pain on any living being. (Okay, admittedly, there are a few politicians I would make an exception for.) Cheers Jeremy
For the moment, I'll stick with the definition of what's legal in my country - and most likely in yours too. Cheers Jeremy
Well in that case the argument shifts from not just alive but to 'consciousness' and 'sentience' and a lot more things that get progressively more complex as we move on down the line. In short at least for me to sum this whole thing up and leave it be, I do not have the time nor patience to sit down and wonder whether or not each living creature I come in contact with directly or indirectly each day has been treated to the point where it does not suffer. Life is NOT enjoyable sometimes, especially when it is ending. Humanizing anything that isn't human is just trying to make ourselves feel better when in the end the thing is still dead. Yes you can limit this treatment, but really.. save it for the animals that are actually worth it. Nothing against Badgers, Mice, Lobsters or Crabs... but I do not shed many tears for them. I have live backed many a crab in my kitchen because that is how they are best prepared.. and I would do it again. Well.. maybe that wasn't so short.. but there was WAY more important things to worry about in today's world then how a simple badger is treated.
Ken, you are absolutely right. That wasn't short. I didn't start this thread to open a general debate on animal welfare. Just to pass on relevant information about badgers and badger hair. And I state 'relevant' because this is a shaving forum and most of us (myself very much included) have developed shaving into a form of hobby. I made a point of finding out how badgers are caught and killed because I do not want to buy another badger hair brush if, as a matter of routine, badgers are skinned alive. It appears that this is not the case so I'm going to continue buying brushes. Although in my case, I will be very selective about which brands I choose. Cheers Jeremy
No, I know you did not. However as is the way with most things (especially on shaving forums) the discussion came about regardless. While we have some differing viewpoints on some of the practicals, we (and most people here, even JayKay I am sure) are not in interest of just mindlessly dealing out pain and suffering to animals just for fun, because I don't think anyone would argue against that being wrong and uncalled for.
First I would like to thank you for your posts and the time that you (and the company reps) took to look into how the hair is harvested. Having said that, After watching the video I was pretty certain that it was not an animal that was "wild caught" that was skinned and I would think that most badgers are killed first. I say this because as I recall the animal was tossed on a pile of other dead animals and because it only makes sense that it was a worker at a farm that mass produces pelts. I recall as a child of around 6 being brought to a poultry farm. A worker was going to toss 3 or 4 chickens into the incinerator as they were old / sick and half dead. He was going to toss them in live until my father looked at him, looked at me and asked the worker if perhaps he meant to kill them first. Overall, the video bothered me and I did not finish watching it (shortly after the skin was off I decided it was enough), but like Jay said, you have to keep things in perspective and pick your battles (though global warming does not even ping my radar...)
Let's say it didn't cost anything or was negligible. Learn the anatomy of the animal and knowing where the right artery is could fall into this category.
You have a valid point. I am certainly a product of my culture and I bring that to everything I observe. OTOH, just because a different culture sees these things differently, doesn't mean they are right. Doesn't mean I am right either. I just don't think animals should to have had to suffer like that. I'm not judging, just reacting.
Yeah, all I was trying to point out was there is always another side to each story which sometimes gets overlooked.
I honestly thought that was valid discussion. I was upset to see it closed. I am not terribly active in the discussion, but I think it is an important one.
Even though it is an emotive subject, the thread on B&B was, almost without exception, kept polite and restrained. Like Rodd, I was thought that it was wrong to close it. In my view, if we are old enough to shave, we should be mature enough to have a civil conversation on contentious topics and given the respect to be allowed to do so. Not that I am cynical or anything, but there was repeated concern raised on the thread about the responses from a particular brush manufacturer. Shortly after the thread was closed, the new B&B Limited Edition brush was announced, manufactured by guess who... Cheers Jeremy
Badgers are sheared like sheep In other wet-shaving forum, SRP, this has also been discussed and most people are concerned about how the animals are treated. Here too. One particular thread pointed out another way to collect the badger's hair: Badgers are sheared like sheep
