Maybe the reason tallow is touted as better is because they have been around longer. Personally I like tallow based soaps more. High concentrations of glycerine do not agree with me. Not saying that all veg soaps are high, I just like tallow more. So tbh, it's all preference. Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
Just saw this. Rod from Sterling told me that he only sources organic, sustainably grown palm oil, which is awesome. The palm oil thing is real and it’s problematic. It’s in everything. Try finding a food product these without it. I tend to avoid it unless I know that a rain forest wasn’t leveled to grow it.
Personally I don't care for the way tallow soaps 'globs up' as you're rinsing it away, they're just all about tremendous stability/volume/cushion['stack height'] and to get these traits in my opinion they always give away a notch of maximum slip/wet/soft feeling after the shave that comes from the almost-always-palm-based vegans. Wish I'd paid more attention in 10th & 11th grade chemistry to know why this is universal. Here in the US we have a few high end 'artisanal' shaving soaps based on either donkey milk or caprae lac (goat) and I've tried all the brands I can find for their tallow based options - they simply do not have the slip of the palm or even no-palm/tallow Euros I've used which employ those same fats, but the Euro soaps are a constant fuss versus the tallow stuff you whip up once and it stays as put for many minutes. Being a straight razor user, however, I'll trade stable for slip/wet.
Of course not ... principles are fine, as long as they don't cost money ;-) And the whole thing about future generations is that we're not around then anymore ... But yes, the threat of deforestation is real (and it is a shame that we relentlessly chop away the living space of orang utans for instance, and destroy the other living creatures and plants in the area). However, there are no simple and painless solutions, so I am afraid we'll just look back in fifty years (well, not me, but my kids and grandkids) and wonder how "they" could let that happen.
Yup. Old thread. Very old, by thread standards. But... with all the long faces over MWF, Tabac, et al. reformulating and no longer using tallow, I was curious about the pros and cons of tallow as an ingredient. Interesting, but not surprising, some folks gotta have the tallow, some don't care. I'm in the "don't care" class. For me, a good soap is a good soap. And as has been said, Some folks really notice the effect of tallow on their skin. Guess I'm just not a sensitive guy. Edit for the new folks - many contributors to this thread are no longer active, so if you are asking a question of someone you're not familiar with seeing on the forum, you may not get an answer. Click on their avatar and see the last time they were active.
I'm in the I don't care class of folks. ...except when a good tallow soap is re-formulated. Then I care. Typically, tallow to veg reformulation isn't better than the previous tallow soap. Occasionally it's as good. Usually, it's okay, and sometimes it's terrible. I look for stearate, steric acid, or soy wax derivative as a top ingredient. All three are good sources of steric acid, which is what creates the (as the French would say) unctuous lather. Thick, rich, dense, slippery stuff. Oleic acid is what gives tallow based soaps their superior post shave skin care feeling, as does lanolin when it's used. You can get that from shea butter and castor oil too, which is why you see those pop up in veggie soaps. In my opinion, it's easier to make a good tallow shaving soap, but a good veggie soap can be made that performs almost exactly like tallow. It just takes some careful mixing of ingredients in the right proportions. Coconut oil and sodium/potassium hydroxide soaps can be quite good as well. Martin de Candre was the first of these, and pretty much single handedly kick started the artisan soap copycat movement. Before that, most soaps were tallow based, and triple milled, and the average person in the kitchen doesn't have a way (or the knowledge) to remove excess glycerin from tallow soap, and without that, you cannot make a hard tallow soap, only a soft tallow soap. Nowadays, almost all soaps are soft. It's the rare soap that is hard anymore. Edit: It is cheaper to just package it up and sell it. I'm loathe to pay money for watery soap, which is what most soft soaps are.
Generally speaking, I prefer tallow shave soaps over veg. One of the better non-tallow soaps I’ve used is La Savonniere du Moulin. Give it lots of water and it rewards with a stunning lather. But yeah, tallow for the win Mitchell’s bath soap is aces! Plus Mrs. chazt likes the way I smell after showering, which is always a plus, lol =) Another personal favorite range of bath soaps is Green Mountain Soaps. I like both, the veggie and tallow soaps. G M soap dot com . No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.
i like a soap that gets the job done...period.nice scent?,ok but optional, I have aftershaves.beyond that ..we have seen dove men soap deliver great usable lather..
I like some soaps made with tallow, such as Tabac, but I also like other soaps and creams that are non-tallow, such as MdC and TOBS. Ryan explains it much better than me, but it's erroneous to simply claim that shave soaps made with tallow are better.
Not necessarily better but my preference. Just fell for Razor Emporium’s 1966. Very nice, light citrus scent and a boatload of cushiony tallow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In my opinion whether a tallow- or vegetable-based soap is better relies entirely on the skill of the soap-maker in using the ingredients. I've used both and have experienced good and bad. Favorites, in no particular order, include: Stirling Soap Co. (Tallow) Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements (Vegan) Oleo Soap Works/Chicago Grooming Co. (Tallow) Dr. Jon's (Vegan) Tabac (Tallow) Saponificio Varesino (Vegetable) Mitchell's Wool Fat (Tallow) Colonel Conk (Vegetable)
I've been using Tallow-based soaps for over 60 years and found them excellent. But in recent years I've tried some non-tallow that were very good. Love my kilos of Cella, Vito's ( still trying to figure out which is better) and Arko (bowl pressed) these will never leave my shelf. But nowadays some non-tallow soaps have matched or even surpassed some tallow base. For example: In the past few months I've added Dove Mens +care 3 in 1 (body, hand, shave) soap to my shelf, quick to lather up, makes a great long lasting, thick, hydrating, moisturizing shave soap, it even has a nice scent. I just shave a bar into a bowl and press it down and it lasts a few months.. Yes, it's non-tallow but it performs just as good if not better than many tallow based. I think if this soap was packaged strictly as a Shave Soap and had a different logo, this soap would be very popular. as a plus, bought a 6 pack $10.49 ($1.75 ea.)
THe thing is... i think the debate was solved in the last few years... once czech and speak supposedly changed soap base a few years ago... its like impossible to find a shave forum thread on it. although their website says their soap is a coconut oil base that is milled seven times....
Tallow isn't a magic ingredient that guarantees an amazing soap and veggie soaps can be just as high performing as established tallow soaps...That said, it's much easier to make a good soap with tallow than it is with vegetal alternatives. A talented soap maker can absolutely pull it off, but nonetheless their appears to be a higher skill ceiling to pull of veggy soaps. Most of the trash soaps I've ended up using as bath soaps have been tallow free formulations from hobbyists. Among those same hobbyists I don't often encounter tallow soaps that aren't at least decent. I'd wager that discrepancy would taper off and perhaps even eventually disappear as you moved away from hobbyists and toward established professionals.
