1. 1. Always
    2. Make your Face Mapping. Growth direction is not exactly N-S / E-W
    3. Stretch the skin against the grain with the other hand
    4. Focus cutting angle, so the bevel glides
    5. More water, more load, more lathering
    6. Scientific method needs proves

    I speak for me.
    Always do two modes shaving routine.
    • Hurry: One pass, against my grain as in my face mapping (less 5min)
    • Relax: WTG / ATG / XTG after shower (about 1h)
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  2. What's this "hurry" you speak of, as it relates to shaving? ;)
    If I don't have time to enjoy my shave my way, I don't shave.:)
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  3. Lucky you.

    I have to shave every day.
    1. I have bad chronic dermatitis
    2. for work I wear a coat
    With no DFS / BBS in the morning, by lunchtime my neck is on fire.
    For me, developing my expertise in wetshaving has been a necessity.
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  4. My apologies, but I may have misunderstood your post.
    After re-reading it, are you doing both the "hurry" pass and then the "relaxed" passes to make for one shave session?

    Sorry if I sounded rude or insensitive. Not my intention.
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  5. I'm nearly 100% ATG blade buffing, FWIW. My results are fast, as smooth as one might desire, and very rarely problematic. It just takes practice. Shaving isn't a chore but I'm not one to lollygag/zen out with it either.
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  6. Nope.
    One pass when I've no time.
    Three passes in the other (few) days.

    No problem.
    Mostly, people shaves with no / few issues.
    When I was a beginner, in the '80s, It was a real problem to me.
    Now, after years of learning how to control my skin problems, I enjoy my daily shave.
    And (mostly) my dermatitis is under control, if I do my routine.

    OTOH, I'm a good tester. If a product works on me, It's useful on almost everyone. :angelic007:
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  7. @PLANofMAN
    Thank you, good insight into what is going on with ATG, appreciate that.
    Two passes WTG, one across and touch ups as needed sounds like where I need to be for the moment, then step down to smoother blade later when I tackle ATG at a later stage.

    As for the swirly spots you mentioned "you might try blade buffing (moving the razor back and forth in small increments) with a thin, slick lather, while following the spiral in the direction of hair growth, and then avoid shaving that spot in subsequent passes" that is something worth thinking about. It will take some practice I guess but interesting thought, I am guessing you are saying tackle these first, and then leave alone for the rest of the shave? Interesting concept. The swirls are quite tight, narrower than the width of the blade and under the jaw below the ear in the hollow, so I am guessing this will be a type of rotary buffing...I will add to my to do list when I have developed some more skills. Definitely a before coffee move if you ask me!
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  8. Nice concept, sounds kind of like what athletes do, mental rehearsals when not actually on the track and field. looks like shaving is more of a learned skill than I originally thought! Who would have thought!
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  9. Yes that is a cool concept too. At the moment I am taking my time learning the ropes on the weekends or my days when I am not working, tends to take 30 to 40 minutes all up. Don't have the time to do that before work, so on my work days I don't shave atm. At least that gives my skin some time to recover. Face masks at work hide the worst of the stubble, so that is OK at the moment. But I do like the idea of a more abbreviated, but not hurried, pre-work shave. Shorter, maybe cold shave one pass WTG, accept the rough bits and the missed bits. Nice idea!
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  10. Alarm clocks are adjustable. ;):p
  11. With time, It'll be natural.
    In time, the difference is few seconds.
    Knowing the personal face mapping, after the first learning curve, one pass ATG is easy.
    In almost the same time, a better shave. Specially about durability.
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  12. i was a 35 year cart shaver who converted to gillette DE in 2016.always had ingrowns or rash issues with carts.i do a 2 pass shave with minor pick ups in 2 spots.after mapping the face i do a NS then SN mostly,with 2 spots on the neck for pickups.it works as the growth is mainly downwards or to the side,so the main passes end up being across the grain passes.the pick ups are against the grain but i buff them and have no issues.slick soap,mild razors and sharp blades.near bbs is good enough for me.no irritation or issues,would they pass a cottonball test?90%,lower neck not.but thats fine by me as well.it took 5 years to get here but now i shave daily comfortably without past issues.:)
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  13. I was lucky enough to start with DE.
    In the 1986, I was 13, my first setup was the same of my granpa (via my father).
    • Razor: Gillette Super Speed Flare Tip
    • Blade: Gillette Silver Blue
    • Brush: Omega 10048
    • Soap: Proraso Green
    • After: Proraso Green

    And I used it for almost two decades.
    BUT, only in the online wetshaving community I really learned how to shave with no issue.

    Actually, my shaving needs are a little over the standard.
    I'm not THAT dummy ...
    :innocent:innocent:innocent
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  14. Yes thanks for the reminder Steve! :happy088:
    Getting up 1/2 hour earlier would certainly turn shaving into a hobby!
    Not sure the wife would be too pleased though,:( that's my excuse and I am sticking to it!
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  15. @brit
    Sounds like another good option, I might get there eventually.
    brit likes this.
  16. 20th December 2022.

    Day off, lazy breakfast and coffee, went for a leisurely walk, already too warm here in Perth, back home for my shave.

    Growth: 1 ½ days
    Prep: hot water face wash, 50 C tap hot water with towel. 3 x 30 seconds
    Pre shave: blue Proraso Aloe and Vit E, with more hot water.
    Brush: Old Vulfix Pure Badger
    Cream: TOBS Aloe = around 1 cc, added around 3 cc water, still dried too fast. Needed another 2 cc water. This needs lots of water to fluff up nicely.
    Post Shave: Alum block stinging under chin, and right cheek.
    Aftershave: Proraso blue
    Razor: still my R89
    Blades: 1. Brand new Derby Extra, corked on cork, and buffed on forearm. Tugging after 1st pass. Just not cutting. Needed extra pressure. Already know this is going to be an average shave.
    2. Swapped this out for a 2nd (new) Derby Extra, still just not sharp enough. Also tugging, leaving stubble behind.

    Passes:
    1st pass WTG and XTG first pass Left Cheek and Right Cheek, top lip N-S down and out.
    Bottom of neck WTG only.
    2nd pass XTG Cheeks ear to nose, cutting better with newer 2nd blade, but still not clearing all the hair.
    Lower neck 2nd pass WTG only West to East.
    Under jaw line is more tricky: just not cutting this dense swirling growth.
    Buffing under ear/jawline, no damage that’s ok.
    Back to top lip and corners of mouth, down and out, avoiding nicks. This is WTG.
    Lower lip WTG down and out is fine. Not fully cleared.
    Touch ups: ATG sideburns area, these areas tolerate this fine.
    Lower lip ATG S-N feels fine.

    Results: Average shave. Weeper under lower chin on the right: too many passes needed with this Derby. Scraping. Needed some Gel Riparatore, not happy.
    Two small red spots left side of lower neck: Aloe and Thayers’ needed. This remains a problem area.

    Success: cleaner around the Adam’s apple: 2x W-E with the grain only.
    Cleaner around the corner’s of mouth with no nicks! Shaving down and out on each side! Small win for the day! Add that to the choreography!

    Residual stubble:
    1. Top lip halfway up, still needs better technique here. Leave for now.
    2. Under Left and Right chin, dense stubble growing sideways. Leave for now.
    3. Left and right cheek, despite puffing cheeks and 2nd pass XTG still roughness but good enough for today.
    4. Left side of chin.

    Lesson of the Day:
    Derby may not be sharp enough for me. Needed more strokes per pass than I would like. Glad I used my last two. Too much scraping, riding the cap still not cutting. Needed more pressure with this blade to try and get it to do its job.

    Back to Astra next time: they feel sharp and smooth, I will need to order more of these, or else bring out the Feathers (gulp).

    Question 6: How long does this take average folks to learn? Weeks/months/years?
    Looking at posts here and from experienced shavers elsewhere here on TSD it looks like this could take a while to master.
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  17. Try a lower grip position of the hand.
    This makes a bigger leverage, with more angle control.
    It' not a matter of pressure.
    Few dozens to understand.
    Few hundreds to learn.
    Few thousends to master.
    Frequency is key.
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  18. Hi Chris. To your question, several things go into mastering your technique. Pressure, angle of attack, and knowing your beard growth direction being the top three, in my opinion.
    How long it will take YOU depends on how obsessive you with achieving results you're willing to live with. When I started accepting a DFS (darn fine shave), the shaves got easier. Those who demand a BBS (baby butt smooth) each and every shave may never get there.
    Don't make it more complicated than it is. You're just dragging a piece of steel over your face. It doesn't (or rather, it shouldn't) take you too long to realize if you're using too much pressure, or if your angle of attack is too steep (digging into your face) or too shallow (not cutting whiskers). Your face will tell you if it doesn't like you shaving in a particular direction to the grain.
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  19. But they can.

    My mother always said ...
    Constancy and Patience
    they are the provident daughters
    of mother Intelligence
    and father Commitment
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  20. Hi Steve, thanks again. Remember I am OCD/gotta get it right old fashioned kind of guy! I will get there.

    Today was much better. 2 day growth. New Astra blade actually cuts! No more Derby for me. DFS, with no cuts, nicks, or weepers, which is all I am chasing right now.

    Very happy for the moment. I think that for me the goal of the Beard Map is to learn where ATG is and to avoid that for the moment. I think that is half the problem with the cartridges, you never really learn that. Once I have that down pat, I can start trying my Muhle Rocca, and Merkur Progress. Next year maybe.

    Thanks for all the input from all. Super useful.

    Merry Xmas, happy New Year and Save Shaving to all.