I use a EJ DE87 (like the DE89 but with a faux ivory handle for faux distinguished gentlemen). In the 8 months or so I've been chasing decent shaves I've learned a few things: 1. I need fewer passes for less irritation. 3 passes is pushing it for me. 2. To achieve a decent shave in fewer passes, I might be better off with a more aggressive razor. To this end I've been experimenting somewhat successfully with shimming my mild razor. 2 shims might be a little much but I'm going back to experimenting with sharper blades as well. This has gotten me to think about the term "aggressiveness" that's thrown around the boards. To me a more aggressive razor has a larger blade gap. Seems simple enough but can someone explain how slants and OC's fit into the equation. (No, I DON'T HAVE ANOTHER TAB OPEN TO THE RAZOROCK JAWS AND BAKELITE RAZORS RIGHT NOW! How dare you?) I feel like I'll always have a few spots where the growth is a little weird on my neck that won't get perfectly smooth without some extra work, and possible irritation, but I'm probably better off with the least amount of blade time on my skin that I can achieve. I'm curious what all you smart people have to say about that. Also on that note, I really want to thank the member's of this board. The vibe here is amazing. I only check one other board and occasionally Wicked Edge, but you guys (and gals) are far and above my favorites.
The aggressive question...so hard to answer. Saying that razors with a large blade gap are aggressive is like saying that all glossy magazines contain pornography. It just isn't true. It's likely, but not a fact written in stone. So let's define aggression really quickly here. An aggressive razor is one that takes out more hair per swipe than, say, a Gillette Super Speed. (using a Gillette Super Speeds as the baseline for a normal razor). The way I see it, you have several options. 1. Get a more "aggressive" razor and do two passes. 2. Use sharper blades and only do two passes. 3. Buy a milder razor and do three passes. or 4. Use a softer brush. (this is a long shot, but if you are using a scritchy or stiff brush, it could be causing irritation.) I'm assuming you've tried #2 already. Unfortunately I've never used the EJ DE89, but I've heard it compared to the Gillette Super Speed. If you have nothing against using vintage razors, I would recommend the Gillette red tip as a moderately aggressive razor, or better yet one of the adjustable razors, modern or vintage.
Well as in life...there is a bit of a balancing act going on....as you develop a lighter touch, then you might be able to try another pass without irritation...But then when your angle and buffing or j-hooking or whatever 'licks' you find that work for you get fine tuned, you might need less razor on face time to get the same close shave....also as you find which blade works with which razor your passes become more efficient so less passes or less pressure is needed.... I've found my open comb which is suppose to be a very mild OC razor...the Senator....has improved the efficiency of each stroke so I can use less pressure so my shaves are irritation free using a slightly mote aggressive but more efficient razor than I was using....And I use the sharpest blades I have in that razor to make things even more effortless....The razor just kind of glides along ontop of the lather leaving a wake of BBS in it's path... The slightly more aggressive, but more efficient set-up does require that I use the right angle and less pressure than with my previous set up...But the angle is easy to find...with an open comb, if you see teeth marks in the lather you have too much angle...you put the head flat on cheek and lower the handle til you hear hair getting cut and you're cool...if you continue lowering the handle you'll see the teeth marks...so the razor tells you pretty unequivocally how to use it correctly... With the OC its not just about more blade gap....there are slots in the safety bar that make up the teeth...and between those there is no safety bar, so its a little like a straight on a stick but the razor is so well designed it prevents almost all user error.....
I notice you specified smart people, but I'm still gonna answer: I do a one pass shave w/ touch ups. To get an acceptable shave I hunted around until I found an aggressive-enough razor. I settled on an o.c. Gillette NEW head with a heavy SABI handle. I used an o.c. m.p. r89 (also known as a Fatip) but it was just a touch too aggressive. The comb doesn't affect aggression, in my opinion. I've never used a slant so I can't speak to that. "Aggression" comes from blade exposure, the design of the head (does it flex the blade, etc..) and the quality of the blade used.
Let's discuss slants briefly. Slants basically twist the blade to allow for a closer cutting effect. The same effect can be generated through technique as to j hooking and certain slides, but the Slant allows this to happen constantly. The drawback is that there is one small section of the blade that comes in closer contact to the skin than the rest and that is where if your technique is not up to par, they will bite you. The old time Bakelites (like the Neillite 400) are light, but have a closed comb with one side having several comb ridges and the other having deep grooves and only four comb ridges. Because the blade is exposed, those are very aggressive razors. They do have a durability issue because of the brittle material. I can get into detail of aggressiveness but I don't think you want to go there. It is my conclusion from what you have discussed so far that you will need a good adjustable razor. It will allow you to adjust for areas that you need a lighter touch on or heavier for those areas that you can stand a little more cutting action. It will also allow you to fine tune the razor to a particular blade to get a better overall effect. I will recommend going old school with a really good Gillette Slim. It is my favorite razor. It is a solid dependable razor that will allow you to fine tune your shaves without having to have a battery of razors in your den. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I mean I have ... er, um, back to the Slim. A good Slim will cost around 25 - 35 USD on the bay. If you can find someone who is on the forums who has one that they will sell that has been cleaned and tested even better. I just sold one to a friend of mine and he loves the fact that he can dial down or up depending upon blade and how his face feels, the need of the day so to speak . I hope this helps.
I'm not sure what makes one razor more or less aggressive than another razor to a particular individual. I suspect technique and the face being shaved have alot to do with it. I use an EJ89 shave head with a shimmed blade and a heavy Weber BullDog handle and love it.... Recently I've begun using a shimmed blade with a Weber SS shave head with the Weber handle same love... I've used a vintage Gillette "NEW" open comb again the love... I recently purchased couple of months ago a Cadet open comb, paired it with a Sabi T2 BullDog handle and a prettier razor you'll never see!!.. BUT the hate began, so far at least I simply can't shave with this razor, it's just to aggressive for my face and tears me up. Other people seem to use them without problem and love them. So why can't I ??? Just one of the "GREAT UNSOLVED" mysteries of shaving....
I hear you saying 3 passes might be more than what your face can handle, I'm in the same boat. However, I don't feel like I've achieved much if I settle for less than BBS. Lately, I found I could shave 5-6 days a week with a medium aggressive razor and a sharper blade by doing a 2-pass (WTG, ATG) shave plus light touch-ups everyday with great results! I'll only skip ATG if my face if my face is calling uncle and then settle for whatever you call it when you still have stubble after shaving. I have a Merkur HD and a 33C (which I prefer) and a Feather Popular, which I find too mild, even loaded with a Feather. I am anxiously waiting for a new Razorock Jaws OC that should be in the mail soon, and hoping the OC experience will improve my shaves without changing the level of aggression that I get form the 33C too much. Oh btw, I found the products I use (soaps and aftershaves) have a big impact on how my face feels after. Lately I've had good results with Tabac and MWF, followed by Thayer's WH, Proraso balm or D.R. Harris splash. As much as I like the scent of Clubman, I can't use it as a splash so it's a cologne only for me (ie not on the face), unless I mix it with WH or layer it. But I digress. Yes, aggressiveness is important! Balance is what I'm seeking.
I have the R41 2 passes and the odd touch-up for a BBS, with either an Astra SP or Feather in it, great razor but it never gets used as much as youd think the shave never feels really smooth but yet NO irritation, weird razor for me I love it for the looks and results. I always thought my skin was quite sensitive until talking about this kinda stuff on this site, I can also shave against the grain no problem (yes lucky me) but I can manage multiple passes esp with my gold USA 40's Aristocrat with a Rapira loaded not an aggressive set up quite mild but very pleasant (so much so I have to check its removing any hairs half way though). I think what im trying to say is I have razors at both ends of the spectrum, but dont really have any allegiance to either, and that shows in my rotation no set order I just use what I feel like. I always get a good shave not always BBS but DFS, Palmolive shave stick is one of my go to products esp if pushed for time or with a new razor as it just so consistent and easy to get the lather right. I also have the EJ89L (I had a BBS 2 days ago with a Day 3 Astra SP and vintage old spice soap) Maybe worth trying Nancy boy cream its really slick and easy to get a great shave so much so thats all I use when I get my straights out.
Aggressiveness and a 2 pass BBS shave. Just a few things that I've found. 1. Soap/Lather found that when trying to have a great shave lather is just as important as what razor you use. Found that Cost and Effect may not be everything. Using a soap such as TSD lanolin Desperado works very well for me. But ... For a 2 pass shave lather needs to be on the damp/wet side. 2. Aggressiveness doesn't mean Pressure. The more you stretch the skin on your face, the less pressure you need. Stretching by moving your jaw or pulling with your opposite hand really help with needing to press less and reduces the number of passes you need. 3. The razor that you use. The only two razor makes that give me a consistent and Real two pass shave are: The Feather AC type blade holders(CJB and Kia included) with a Proguard blade. And. The Gillette '04 style from and before the WW1 years. These two razors give a consistent, comfortable, safe, real 2 pass shaves (1 WTG, 1 ATG). You're clean and spruce for the whole day.
I have recently begun shimming my EJ DE89 and I also use the MuhleR41. That mix of aggression is great for me. I need to tough up with the shimmed 89 after two passes. The R41 is damn near DFS after one WTG pass; the second pass is pretty much ATG touch up. Lately I've only been using MWF and Tabac soap. Don't chase the baby though, just shoot for DFS and let the baby find you. It seems to hang around more the less you chase it.
I can only do 2 passes max. I usually just need to do one pass and then touch up various areas on my face. It takes awhile to find that sweet spot, but once you do it will mesh perfectly.
The R41 is damn near DFS after one WTG pass; the second pass is pretty much ATG touch up. Don't chase the baby though, just shoot for DFS and let the baby find you. It seems to hang around more the less you chase it.[/quote] Yes spot on there Bob, that took me awhile to NOT chase the BBS if it happens it happens. there is always another shave. And same as you there on the R41 the only real reason I have 2 passes and touch up is to get the BBS lol, its pretty much a 1 pass and touch up razor for me. if Im ever pushed for time and need to shave its the R41 and Palmolive shave stick.
Also consider adjustables such as the Merkur Progress or Futur. The dials have markers as points of reference, allowing you turn it to any setting you deem appropriate!
I tried my theory with 2 shims and a feather on Sunday. I got quite close after 1 WTG pass. I tried my 2nd pass which is a combo of ATG/XTG and thought I had found nirvana until about an hour later when my face/neck felt like it was on fire. I guess I'll go back to 1 shim for now. The adjustables are looking more and more desirable. Thanks everyone for your replies.
Just remember you can over shave with the adjustables also. One click to many and you have fire face/neck... Soooooo many options....... Perhaps a double shimmed Feather for the first pass and a single shimmed for the second?
I'm not coordinated enough to separate shims from a razor sharp blade early in the morning. I did try a 2 pass today with a Gilette 7 O'Clock in a dark blue box and 2 shims. Went really well with zero irritation. I think a tamer blade than the Feather is what I need. I'll keep plodding along.
well after trying some different blades and going with 2 passes, I went back to my old ways and have gotten 3 really good shaves with my trusty Dorco 300's and 3 passes. I've just been a lot more careful to use no pressure. One of these days I'll get my consistency down.
I know what your saying. I got my best, most comfortable shave with a Wilkonson Sword blade, 1 WTG pass. Then the next shave wasn't as good. I think it has something to do with stretching the skin. For me, stretching the skin seems to increase my chances of getting razor burn. Unfortunately, I am a member of the sensitive skin club and have to experiment to figure out what works for me. Trying to get my consistency down so I can get a clean, irritation free shave every time.
