Polishing Powders for Honing??

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by DaltonGang, May 24, 2019.

  1. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Time to think outside the box. Since many of us build a Slurry, to aide in honing our blades, are there different media that can be used??
    I have used some Nagura Stones, to hone 6 razors, over the past week or so, with excellent results. These stones make a slurry, by giving off fine grit particles of sand, basically. I dont know the exact grit rating these particles are, but they are very fine.
    These Nagura, or Slurry Stones, can be costly. Can we not get the same results from pre-made powders??
    Lets say, Silicon Carbide, or Diamond Powders??
    I have seen them rated from 1000- 150,000 grit. They are advertized as being used in polishing applications.
    Anyone try this method before??
    Any reason It wouldnt work??

    ..
     
  2. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    There were some tests done at least 10 years back, using CrOx etc: on Super Hard Hones like the Spyderco Ultrafine I am pretty sure I remember Robert Williams and maybe Joe Chandler, or Zowada doing some of these back then..

    The results I read about were favorable, but it just never really caught on
     
  3. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Hmmmm, might be time to do some experimenting.

    ..
     
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  4. Steve56

    Steve56 Well-Known Member

    People have used cerium oxide with success I believe.
     
  5. basil

    basil Well-Known Member

    Sounds like it could work.
    But why not just go to a 12k(or finisher of choice) and follow that with the pastes on a strop or balsa. Would work about the same I think.
     
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  6. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Many do finish with a 12k.
    The pasted strops are flexible, and over time become inefective. Then you will have to take it to a hard surface. Start as sharp, and polished as possible, and your edge should last longer.
    Many here like to push the edge further than the 12k mark.
     
  7. basil

    basil Well-Known Member

    I know pasted strops can round the edge, but what about a balsa strop. I thought the balsa wouldn’t round an edge.
     
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  8. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Balsa still gives, slightly. Powders are very inexpensive. I might give it a try. Anyone know the approx grit of some of the better Naguras out there???
     
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  9. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor

    Are you sure :)
    That is one of the statements that sent me into a long experiment with pasted strops using .50 and .25 Diamond paste

    These two statements drove me nuts

    Pasted strops will Round the Edge (Convexity),,, which is actually the desired effect since it makes the edge stronger, DE manufacturers use specialized grinders to introduce Double and Triple micro bevels to achieve a more convex bevel

    Pasted Strops create a harsh fragile edge, hmmmmmm now if a convex edge is stronger (fact) how are we weakening the bevel if we are rounding the bevel..

    Anyway I did some SERIOUS over stropping and pasting trying to create a failure of the bevel, after 80 shaves or so I gave up and deemed the experiment not applicable to the real world

    ie: after 80 or so good shaves it is a moot point and got really boring

    here

    Enjoy the old read
     
  10. basil

    basil Well-Known Member

    I remember your experiment now actually. I joined srp in 2010 so caught the end of it.

    I stand corrected in my strops can round the edge. I guess the problem is only introduced with poor technique and holding the strop too slack.
     
  11. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    80, or so, cycles of pasted stropping, of one razor?? It's good to know the edge didnt fail. How was the edge, was it still just as sharp??
     
  12. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    It was 10 years ago :p but I had no issues with the edge, it could have REALLY been extended out IMHO if I had done more shaving less stropping.. I was honestly trying to get the edge to fail, I wanted to feel and see it degrade.. That just never happened..

    There are sometimes "Engineering" theories introduced into our hobby that even if true, just have no real effect in the real world of shaving..

    I have always figured if you are getting 50+ shaves out of ANY edge you have done your job with Honing, Stropping, and Shaving correctly :D
     
  13. Leclec13

    Leclec13 Well-Known Member

    I’m following you on the pastes, slurries , nagura. I recently started slurring same stone(s) with dmt card for a natural slurry. Found it improved speed. Not 100% sure if it improved final edge compared to finishing stone with out slurry. Also recently acquired a coticule slurry stone and have been experimenting with that. And am very impressed with its performance. I would love to try Japanese nagura set, but the ones from well trusted sources are $$$. I’m also experimenting with some other no traditional slurries but nothing conclusive yet...

    Tomo nagura (Keith Johnson) has some pastes on his site but she’s Etsy store is down right now, and should be up shortly. To answer your original post. Yes I think you should be able to get similar results with in this case a paste.

    I do have experience with diamond pasted balsa. These are mounted on rigid surface. The suggested progression is .5 .25. .1. Micron diamond pastes. The .1 micron is over 200,000k equivalent. It is so effective i found my self using as a crutch for poorly honed edges. I have since revisited hone to confirm I’ve maxed stone and leather strop capacity. Then went to the diamond pasted balsa. Which even furthered improved the edge. But you don’t know until you try it.... if you want I can send you enough diamond paste to try out this method. Balsa and mounts can be had inexpensively. (Along with my experimental powders) There a lot of aficionados of this technique on other forum. Certain razor can’t handle a .1 micron edge. Lately I’ve been preferring the comfort of the .25 micron finished edge.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  14. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers


    Thank you, this is all very good information to know.
     
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  15. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

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  16. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    These just arrived, from China. :D
    10,000
    30,000
    100,000
    Synthetic Diamond Powder.

    P6301047.JPG
     
  17. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Now, what should the base for the honing be, with grit this high???
    If I use a regular hone, will it not just revert to leaving the marks of the lowest grit object on the razor?? That being the hone.
    Should some glass be used??
    @gssixgun might know. :D
     
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  18. Leclec13

    Leclec13 Well-Known Member

    Thinking out loud here ...
    diamond will be harder than all honing surfaces I can think of.... will prolly scratch any stone I can think of
    .... following
     
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  19. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Look at the grit size of the powders, vs the stones out there. Can't see it happening.
     
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  20. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    @DaltonGang

    The Syderco Ultrafine was the base stone of most of the Honing powder experiments in the past, it is virtually indestructible :p

    I would imagine any high grit ceramic would be a likely suspect for this
     

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