razor won't get sharp

I've got this razor that just won't get sharp. I've got the Norton 4k/8k, a velvet and Primble hone and a Swaty on the way.

I've done pass after pass on the 4k and it won't get sharp.

What should I try next??

 

Well, the 4k is a coarser finishing hone, but it is a finishing hone nonetheless. You _need_ a ~1k stone to set the bevel.

 

Yes, make sure the bevel is set! You can check this by applying a black marker to the bevel so that the bevel on both sides are colored completely black, then do five to ten light passes on your favorite finishing hone. Where the marker remains is where the blade is not contacting your hone! Any black left along the edge will mean that you should go back to a 1K stone and reset the bevel!
This is also handy for checking for a warped blade!

 

You do not mention where you acquire the razor. If it is an Ebay special, antique shop buy or anything along those lines you need to get a 1k and established a new bevel on the edge. Once you do this, it will take an edge if everything else is okay with the blade and edge.

Raf

 

It has been my regular daily shaver for over a year. I recently did some work on the scales and I wanted to resharpen it just to minimize the effect of any additional stress I might have cause during the work. But this is where I haven't been able to sharpen it up the way it had been.

I don't have a 1k and since I've just had my hours cut at work now, I don't think I'll be spending any more money on stones for a while. However, I'm going to try the marker test and see what that produces.

Thanks for the help, guys, I'll let you know what the marker shows

 

Gentlemen, Thank you!!

I marked up the edge of the razor and did a few very light passes on the 8k. Most of the black marker disappeared on both sides except for a small spot on each side, one side near the tip and the other side toward the middle.

Not having a 1k, I chose the 4k realizing it would take me longer to get the same results. I worked on those areas and remarked the razor. I had to do this procedure a couple of times until all the marking came off evenly on both sides but it eventually did.

I worked a little more on the 4k, testing with the thumbnail to be sure I had an even edge that bit smoothly. Once accomplished, I moved to the 8k for just a few (maybe 10) strokes. I couldn't hear the razor move on the 8k at all but I get a very nice sticky feeling all across the edge using a thumb pad test.

I'll strop it and shave tomorrow or Monday with it to see how successful I was.

Interestingly, I began to notice that on the 4k side, the sound of the razor on the hone eventually became uniform on each side of the razor and I started to get a suction feeling when flipping around for a new stroke. On the 8k, it felt very smooth and, as I said, there was no sound whatsoever. I'm not really sure why this is or if it tells me anything useful regarding the edge but it was something different.

 

For just setting the bevel on one razor that's not in really bad shape, you can get a sheet of 1000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper and rubber-cement a 3" strip of it to something very flat, like a piece of glass, or a granite counter top. Use wet with water.

 

I'll keep that in mind, Fritz. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Not sure how long you worked on the 4k but 10 laps on the 8k might not be enough to the edge nice and smooth. Just a thought...

Raf

 

The grits of sandpaper and waterstones are not the same. From what I've been able to ascertain, a sheet of 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper is, apparently, the rough equivalent of an 8000 grit waterstone. This is not necessarily gospel, but is what I believe to be true.

For my woodworking tools, I have always had good luck using 3M wet/dry sandpaper from an auto parts or auto paint store (220/320/400/600/1000/1500/2000 grit; not necessarily all of them - depends on the condition of the tool). These are glued to a sheet of 1/2" thick plate glass (for flatness). A little water on the sandpaper and have at it...leaves a mirror finish that is scary sharp! Plus, there's no flattening required - just scrape off the old sandpaper and glue on a new sheet. No pre-soaking or slurry building either.

Obviously, you would not want to combine these abrasives and use sandpaper up to 2000 and then proceed to a 4000 grit waterstone thinking it was finer. You'll put 4000 grit scratches on that shiny 2000 grit finish!!

This chart was taken from info I found on the web...ymmv

 

Just to make the discussion a little bit more confusing:

 

Nice post !

 

And one I hadn't thought of. I worked quite a bit on the 4k, do you think I should do more passes on the 8k?

 

It may be alright, although I've always had to do quite a few 8K Norton passes to remove the 4K scratches. Usually more than 10, although it depends on the razor, of course.

On the grit issue, it seems different manufacturers use different definitions. For example, the Shapton 8K is, according to Shapton, 1.84 microns for its glass stones, whereas the Norton 8K is, according to Norton (and DMT, apparently), 3 microns. :shrug

James.

 

It's getting better

Well raise my rent! I did many more passes on the 8k and did a few finishing passes on my John Primble razor hone last night and the shave was much improved. It's not quite "there" yet but it was a significant difference. I'll do some more 8k passes and see what tomorrow brings.

It looks like I had just not gotten all the 4k scratches out and that was the cause of my difficulties

 

Hello Steve. I think you have made your bevel with your 4K and agree with Scorpio that you need more on the 8K. With that said I have never been able to get the edge that I want only on an 8K. I would suggest that you try the Chromium Oxide on a balsa paddle for final finish. Balsa is cheap and a little CrO goes a long way and is cheap also. Your balsa paddle has two sides so 1.0 diamond paste would work here also. Since your razor has been sharp before, it can be sharp again.

 

Yes, it's looking that way. I did more 8k and Primble honing to polish up the blade more and this morning's shave was back to wonderful. So it looked like I just needed more finishing work done.

Chrome Ox doesn't agree with me. I have a leather bench hone from Tony Miller that I personally pasted with CrO from Hand American. Every time I use that, I dull my blade. I think I must have pasted it incorrectly (probably too much paste) since it was my first time trying to paste anything. Since almost everyone else loves the stuff, I'm sure I did something wrong.

However, I'm really starting to love the finish that my barber hone puts on the edge. Perhaps someday I will attempt the CrO again.

Thanks for the advice.

And a big thank you to everyone! The advice you've all given me has helped get my razor back to it's wonderful sharpness and my shave to a complete joy this morning.

 

This has been a good post. I am having a similar problem with a razor. I keep honing it over and over. I get it close to shave ready then it loses edge. Good project for me.

 

Lee,

I think there is a place that a razor can get to where no more progress seems to be made. Go a little further, and the edge responds. I don't know if that holds true for all blades but I think it certainly happened here. I needed to smooth out the edge and remove all those 4k scratches but it took a while, longer that I would've thought. Keep at it and keep us posted on your progress.

For what it's worth,

I tried something a little different after my last post. Although the razor was shaving great after following everyone's advice, I wanted to try a few more passes on my Swaty hone (hey, I had just gotten it and "needed" to try it out ), followed by 50 or 60 strokes on my canvas strop and the same number on my leather strop. The result was an even smoother shave, so much so that I'm now down to a 2 pass shave with a couple of touch up swipes on the trickier places of my face. I get very near to BBS doing this and it's so close, I leave it there. So, I think it was possible to have smoothed the edge even further, even though it certainly was giving great shaves. Makes me wonder how much better I could get the razor if I put my mind to it. But, since all is well, I'll leave it alone.

 

I havent read all the posts but just a susjestion ,if you are having trouble ,lap your stones and make sure they are flat, 1000 grit wet & dry on a sheet of glass and use a figure 8 motion ,if this has already been mentioned sorry , but I`m too slack to read all the posts
Kind regards Peter