razor won't get sharp

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by Reformation Student, May 24, 2008.

  1. mastermute

    mastermute FatBoy

    Sound like people with waaaay too much sparetime :p:happy102
     
  2. Jimbo

    Jimbo New Member

    Yes, way too much time on their hands, but it's wonderful that they do, 'cause then we all benefit! :)

    Speaking of wonderful, thanks Klaus for the sequential honing guide. You know, in all this time it never occured to me to do that - funny how the brain works. I read a Barber's manual once, and I recollect that they suggested this approach to creating a smiling edge, but for some reason I never put it together with general honing... :confused:

    There's been some conjecture, over at SRP in recent weeks, that if your stropping technique follows (is parallel to) the striation pattern left from the hone then it is more beneficial and creates a better edge (as opposed to say stropping across the striations left from the hone). If this is true (and there's some who think it is, some who think it isn't, and evidence for both sides, I think) then I can see how the sequential honing approach could be better as the striations left are perpendicular to the edge. Whereas a heel-leading X pattern creates diagonal striations, and by my calculations would require a very non-intuitive stropping technique to enable the parralel theory.

    Anyway, I'm waffling again... Thanks again for that Klaus - you've given me food for thought...

    James.
     
  3. Michael

    Michael Duke of Kent

    You know, all this is very interesting. I recently told my 92 year old (almost) mom that I was learning to use a straight and she said my grandfather used one (and that I shouldn't because I would likely slit my throat).

    Anyway, I got to wondering how scientific the old guys were about this. I'm sure they used whatever oilstone they had laying around. I don't think waterstones even existed (in the States anyway) when he was alive. 8000 grit? 12000? I doubt it. I'm sure they used a strop of some kind, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was just an old belt. Probably never heard of Cr2O3.

    Sometimes I think we get carried away around here. :D
     
  4. mastermute

    mastermute FatBoy

    You can't be serious! Us, carried away? Nah... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  5. moviemaniac

    moviemaniac Tool Time

    back in the old days folks probably only used leather belts or strops. Someone in town could hone the things and that was about it. Back then, BBS was a term unknown to man and shaving was mostly a chore and not a pleasant, rewarding thing as we see it today.

    @James: I don't think that the directions of the striation marks matter if they are within a certain range. Maybe it has an effect when you use coarser hones but I tend to believe that if you use a 12k Chinese, 16k or 30k Shapton or a Nakayama these speculations become obsolete. Still, it's interesting to see the level of detail at which sime guys operate.

    Well, yeah. Ya know, the old folks didn't have all the resources available we do today and thus I think we really can improve things by thinking and trying. And, honestly, if little tricks like the one I posted above and that James mentioned (not to paste too much) lead to a much improved lifetime of a razor, then it's worth the time we put into thinking about improving things.
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Duke of Kent

    Yeah, what was I thinking?!
     
  7. Jimbo

    Jimbo New Member

  8. moviemaniac

    moviemaniac Tool Time

    Ah yes, that was a very good read indeed :)
     
  9. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    I can see both sides. I like to keep things simple and often refer to the barber manuals for that. But I also want to keep my blade lasting as long as possible and sometimes I think some of the newer technology is the way to go.

    In the end, I think I'm going to finally settle on a blend of old/new based on what works and is easiest for my skill level currently.

    @ James: yes, my barber manual does give instructions very similar to sequential honing as the method to put a smile on a blade. However, it is clearly taught as an advanced technique and not for the beginner. MM's method seems simpler than the barber manual, though.

    @MM: Thanks for the sequential honing guide. At first I was concerned because it looks like the middle of the blade is getting much more honing time than either end, which ought to put a frown on the blade. But reviewing it, I don't think I'm correct entirely since each end gets more time on the stone with this method than with the X-pattern. It looks like a good method to try out next time I need to hone.
     
  10. goatshaver

    goatshaver New Member

    Nonsense! Eschers and cuticules were not an uncommon stone in America in "the old days"! Based on that alone I would say that your assumptions were incorrect! I will say, however, that I got my first strop about 15 years ago from an old barber who was in his eighties. He told me that it was his first strop, and that he received it from his first boss in used condition. I have always suspected that the leather used to fashion that strop was taken from an old saddle!
     
  11. moviemaniac

    moviemaniac Tool Time

    While that may certainly be the case I think we can agree that not everyone who owned a razor also had a hone. If that were the case then we'd find many, many (well, in fact as many as there are razors ;) ) antique Eschers and coticules and the likes in yard sales, flea markets and antique stores. But, alas, these stones are quite rare which supports my theory that they were not THAT common and not everybody who shaved with a straight owned one. And that supports my theory that there were a few people in town who honed the razors for others.
     
  12. Scorpio

    Scorpio Big Hitter

    Amen brother!!!! I have been saying this for a couple of years now. Folks in the old days just hone on one or two stones and stropped on one belt that was it. All these new pastes and stones are just way too much for what it is. I am guilty of some of the buying impulse but I also realized most of it was not necessary. Taking a page out of Will's book...Just hone and shave baby!!!

    Raf
     
  13. Scorpio

    Scorpio Big Hitter

    I agree. The fact that only a few had the stones does not make them rare. This would seem to indicate that those who had the stones were the barbers or the blacksmiths that hone axes and knifes for the folks in town. It was simply another tool of the trade. Very few men would shave themselves using a straight in those days, unlike we do today, therefore negating the necessity for having the stones to hone the razors.

    The leather commonly used to make saddles and tack is latigo. This is the same leather we find in many strops today. All of my strops have latigo leather.
     
  14. JayKay

    JayKay 3000 posts and all I got was this lousy title

    Not sure if its cheap, expensive, or what but bed bath and beyond has a whet stone with 300 and 1000 grit sides for like....45$
     
  15. fritz

    fritz New Member

    Sounds expensive to me. The 300 side is probably not ever needed for razors, and I got a nice large King 1000 for $20.00. That's adequate for straightening edges, and setting the bevel.
     
  16. fritz

    fritz New Member

    I bought my first straight, a Hess Hair Milk, from my barber in 1961. He honed it for me as needed. I suspect that most men did this same thing centuries ago.
     
  17. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    Fritz,

    just out of curiosity...how frequently was "as needed"?
     
  18. fritz

    fritz New Member

    You expect me to remember from 47 years ago? :D Well, whenever it got a little dull, which was about every 6-9 weeks, to the best of my recollection. Most of the time, he just used his barber's stone, right there in the shop. In fact, only maybe twice in 6 years, he kept it to take home and hone more extensively. By that time, I had gotten a second one from him anyway.
     
  19. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    Sure. I run into people who remember 47 years ago all the time. Funny, the comments always start off "Back in my day..." :D

    Thanks for the info.
     
  20. Michael

    Michael Duke of Kent

    I remember 47 years ago. I was in the 8th grade. Back in my day (smart a$$ :D), I had to walk about a mile to the school bus (instead of 50' to the end of the driveway like today). I didn't have to shave though.
     

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