Reknot with no shelf?

Discussion in 'The Brush' started by mvd, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. mvd

    mvd Well-Known Member

    I would appreciate any thoughts on whether a "shelf" is strictly necessary for reknotting a brush. Has anyone tried inserting the new knot and tacking it in place with 5 min epoxy, and then back-filling it with epoxy later to create the epoxy plug. It would kinda be creating the "shelf" last and leaving a void beneath it. This is how many brushes come already, but I am wondering if anyone has tried this as a hobbyist to see how easy and/or sound it would be.

    I know I could use cork, washers, coins, BBs etc...but I am interested in thoughts on going "shelfless."

  2. Terry Williams

    Terry Williams Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what you mean by backfilling with epoxy, but what I've done is preset the knot to my desired loft with something that will leave an indication of depth in the handle. I've used hot glue, dry plaster of paris, and few other, less successful, materials (magic marker, Sharpie, ink). Hot glue seems to work well because it leaves enough residue. Set the knot in hot glue to your desired loft and pull it back out. Then, clean up the knot. But, most hollow handle brushes are too lightweight for me. So, I fill them with something. Glues don't add much weight unless you use coins or BBs or lead or something. But, plaster of paris works well for me. I mix up enough to fill the handle and make it wet enough to pour. Fill it up to my indicator and let set overnight. Voila! A shelf. So, then setting the knot is just a matter of gluing it in with whatever glue that you fancy. Seems that silicone glue is the most popular right now because it is less permanent; making it easy to reuse the knot and handle later. Epoxy is pretty permanent; 5-min or otherwise.
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  3. mvd

    mvd Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the tip! I may pick some up for a future project.

    In the meantime, I figured that experience is the best teacher so gave things a go. I coated the knot and base with a light coat of epoxy, slotted the knot into the base, and then dropped in some more epoxy while holding it upside down with pressure for 5 min. Hopefully, I now have a solidly attached knot with a skim of epoxy beneath it. I may backfill and add a bit more epoxy as well for some thickness. The goal was to not build a shelf of quarters or something that may cause issues with future restores (Plaster of Paris would have worked for this as well), and also to leave a bit of a void between the top and bottom since my goal weight was already achieved with BBs in the bottom half. With the orange one, there is also just a lot of space given the shape of the brush.

    I always wonder about gluing the threads. This time I may use a light coat of silicone to keep water out and adhere the halves, but hopefully it will not prevent future restores. I have used epoxy in the past, but I am not sure how someone would get the halves apart once epoxied unless twisting strength would cause the bond to break.

    Here are two pictures. I will post the finished brushes in my Simms thread with the rest of them.

  4. Terry Williams

    Terry Williams Well-Known Member

    Ooooh, Ok. I get it now. Most of my old brush restore/reknots have been with one piece handles or there was just a cap on the bottom. I actually got the idea of Plaster of Paris from an old handle (can't remember what make). It had a simple cap on the bottom that fell off and the handle was filled with plaster or some sort of chalk. So, I figured if it was good enough for the manufacturer, it was good enough for me.

    Epoxy is pretty permanent. I use it in golf clubs. It helps to have glue with greater than 25ooo lbs shear strength in golf clubs. I doubt that you would be able to break the epoxy bond without damaging or destroying the handle if you try to twist it apart. I have to use very high heat (torch or 1000W heat gun) to break the epoxy bond on my golf clubs. I think if you want to create the ability to repair or reknot the brush, then you might consider using something like hot glue or silicone glue. Both are plenty sturdy and waterproof enough for daily use. Then, it would be easier to remove the knot or break apart the handle.

    But, job well done, me thinks. Those handles are very cool looking.
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  5. jimjo1031

    jimjo1031 never bloomed myself

    I have done this before when two halves will come apart with threads. The epoxy will hold it just fine. To make it easy for them to come apart cause of soap scum seeping into the threads, for example future cleaning, coat the threads with a little Vaseline. It will also do a good job of sealing the threads. Similar to using grease or Never Seize on wheel lugs to prevent lug nuts from sticking to them. On ones where they don't come apart and hollow through to the base, I add a combination of foam and maybe some BB's or a coin or two to raise it up for the knot to adhere to.
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  6. mvd

    mvd Well-Known Member

    @jimjo1031 Thanks for the info. Do you mean vaseline and epoxy in the threads or just vaseline? I guess teflon tape would work too.

    What type of foam do you use to fill the handle? That intrigues me. I like new ideas like foam or the Plaster of Paris @Terry Williams mentioned.
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  7. jimjo1031

    jimjo1031 never bloomed myself

    Usually that dense but slightly spongy foam that you get in packages that are form fitted to products. I get them all the time when I order certain items. Gonna have to try plaster of paris sometime, sounds like a good idea. Just use Vaseline, can be tightened and taken off easily.
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  8. stingraysrock

    stingraysrock PIF'd away his custom title

    The most important thing is to not use an excessive amount of adhesive. If you use too much adhesive and it soaks into the base of the knot, I guarantee you will hate that brush.
  9. americanshamrock

    americanshamrock Let's Make a Deal! Staff Member

    Not sure why you would want to put the carriage before the horse...creating the shelf is like making the foundation for the building before framing.... it makes it easier to set the knot with more precision and lessens the risk of the above (damage to the knot).
    My 2¢.....and yes I like to use coins for my shelves.....
  10. MaxP

    MaxP Member

    It depends on the handle and the weight you want the handle to have.

    I’ve used a wine cork for filler (creating a base or shelf)

    I’ve also filled a handle with bb’s and epoxy. It really depends on weight and your creatvity
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