Rockwell Model T

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by Sabre, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Paperboy

    Article Team
    Never heard of it.
    Edit: looks like a weishi or baili razor design.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  2. blashe

    blashe Well-Known Member

  3. John Ruschmeyer

    John Ruschmeyer Well-Known Member

    Makes sense. I'd guess that it's either Baili's take on an adjustable or Weishi's evolution of the Parthenon without Shave.

    One other random thought... there was that Atomic Razor which was an adjustable TTO from the "as seen on TV" folks and which was mysteriously cancelled before its release. I wonder if there might be an OEM connection there?
  4. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    The prior Vikings relationship with Baili suggests it's their production but just conjecture.

    I would not be surprised if we find out later that there is Zamak in the head.
  5. jimjo1031

    jimjo1031 never bloomed myself
    The link is about Viking's Vulcan razor, but further down it mentions that Viking's Chinese partner used Viking's design to make their own razors. They are lighter than Viking's Chieftan razor.
  6. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    The Baili announcement that Vikings released did not state what specifications were Vikings', only that the two razors were different. Whether that means the head design differed isn't clear to me. Baili representatives earlier claimed to be the "designer of all Baili razors", which suggested that Vikings provided revised specs for a Baili design. Whatever the chain of events I'm very happy with the Baili.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    jimjo1031 likes this.
  7. jimjo1031

    jimjo1031 never bloomed myself

    Yep, it's a good razor.
  8. blashe

    blashe Well-Known Member

    some head parts are zamak, a guy who works on the razor confirmed this on youtube
    jmudrick likes this.
  9. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    The quote I see says "the name plate under the head that has our name and logo" as the only Zamak.
  10. blashe

    blashe Well-Known Member

    that's why I said some parts, regarding the name plate he should be referring to the bottom base plate that leaves the top of the t-bar and the silo doors in brass, at least that's how I understood him
    jmudrick likes this.
  11. DesertTime

    DesertTime Well-Known Member

    Ironically, we probably have Rockwell to thank for the re-emergence of adjustable TTO razors. A QShave engineer responded to one of our members, describing the design differences between the Parthenon and Model T. Apparently, Rockwell approached QShave/Weishi about manufacturing the Model T for them. QShave declined because the design would be too difficult to reliably produce (obvious for over a year now). They probably saw the demand for a TTO razor and an opportunity to produce one with different design approach, based on their successful clone of the Futur. Perhaps the producers of the Viking razor had a similar experience?

    I always suspected the reason Rockewell moved assembly to Canada wasn't so much they couldn't find someone to produce it to their "high standards and tolerences," but because no one wanted to touch it after seeing the issues with producing a flawed design.

    Now two companies have beat them to market, starting long after Rockwell started their Model T effort. Each of these razors contain less ZAMAC at a small fraction of the price of a Model T.
    jmudrick and Str8on2 like this.
  12. blashe

    blashe Well-Known Member

    I didn't knew that Rockwell approached Weishi/Qshave for producing the Model T. Someone is for sure producing the Model T but I doubt its made in Canada, not sure why would a company manufacture all razor parts and electro plate them outside Canada and leave the assembly to Rockwell to do it themselves, its either Rockwell wants to make sure everything align properly or as you said the manufacturing companies saw there are issues to arise when trying to assemble the pieces?
    Str8on2 likes this.
  13. John Ruschmeyer

    John Ruschmeyer Well-Known Member

    I'm not surprised about Rockwell doing the assembly. One of the early problems with the 6S stemmed from relying too much on the vendor to perform QA which wasn't happening.
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  14. John Ruschmeyer

    John Ruschmeyer Well-Known Member

    I hadn't seen the part that Rockwell approached Weishi/Qshave, but the FAQ for the Parthenon Kickstarter included a couple of specific comments about the problems of making a razor like the classic Gillette adjustables.

    I really think that Rockwell and Janus should partner on a razor. There must be a ton of "lessons learned" between those two companies.
    Str8on2 and DesertTime like this.
  15. Jim Bennett

    Jim Bennett Member

    New TTO adjustable razors seem to be coming out everywhere. They're being made by companies that can go from concept to delivery in a matter of months, not years. They're also being made of plated brass, a technique that was common with the old Gillettes but that Rockwell can't seem to master. I understand that some guys are collectors and want the Model T to add to their collection. They could have some value if they are ever made but they are not going to be what was originally promised and they will be inferior to the new razors now being made and sold on Amazon at a fraction of Rockwell's $200 price tag. Crusader promises to be 5 times the razor at one fifth the price. Gillette set the standard for price and quality by which all other razors are measured. No one has been able to match them yet but its only a matter of time. Rockwell has missed the boat. They should change the name of their razor from the Model T to the Unicorn.
    Frijolero, DesertTime and Str8on2 like this.
  16. Str8on2

    Str8on2 Well-Known Member

    Agreed on all points except one. The price standard and costs of yesteryear from Gillette Manufacturing and it's subsidiaries were a fraction of what the costs are today. If we were to account for todays costs in materials, dies, trial runs, pre-production run outs and the big one, labor costs I'm quite positive that the cost/price of today's Fatboy/Slim/Black Beauty Gillette trio would hover close to a $200 price tag. $1.95 in 1961 was just to bring in potential customers so that they could really make their money on blade sales. Is it possible that Gillette lost money on producing these iconic razors? Perhaps but, they more than made up for it with their blades.
    DesertTime likes this.
  17. kfbrady

    kfbrady Well-Known Member

    Agreed, and Gillette could churn out Fat Boys for $1.95 (today's equivalent would be about $17) not just because blade sales subsidized them but also because they made them by the millions for a huge growing market. Economies of scale and all that stuff.
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  18. blashe

    blashe Well-Known Member

    Nope the new name should be Model 195. Its not more as in Rockwell cant master brass stamping but more like brass stamping equipment is very expensive, it can go from 300K to 1 mil just to setup the line to produce 1 kind of piece, imagine now the head has 4-5 different pieces.... Not enough demand for that, while Baili and Qshave already have their stamping machines setup and have been doing it for a very long time, they can not design the bottom plate because theirs are much more complicated in design than Gillette ones but makes it easier to get the rest of the head parts click just perfect. Not bad trade off by having 1 piece from zinc from the whole razor and anyways that part don't get much abuse or friction of metal to metal so if the plating is done right that razor can go up to 2 lifetimes considering chrome plating is highly durable and pink gold plating is much more durable than gold one because it has mix of copper in it. They just need to work on the bottom plate and introduce lather holes that are functional, from what I heard from both manufacturers they are already working on that issue.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  19. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    When Schick produced the Krona in 64 and were working on an adjustable they quickly learned the economics of producing a Gillette type razor (TTO patents had expired) weren't commercially viable even then, thus the 1967 redesign which simplified manufacture.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    PickledNorthern and DesertTime like this.
  20. Kypros Christodoulides

    Kypros Christodoulides Well-Known Member

    The Parthenon beat the T by a month or so, so It's the 2nd TTO adjustable on the market, maybe the 1st American made one. I' ve been shaving with the Parthenon for a month now, but the T is nowhere near.

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