Everyone wants there pet projects.. but they do not help with how things are. But Obama is telling people that we need this now to help fix the Economy . How is that anywhere near right. Fuzzy
There are things in the package that will help now. The full bill seems like a waste, but in Washington you must take the good with the pork.
I agree..but people will not do anything about it. If enough people cared and enough people try things happen.. look at the last election. Fuzzy
But does he mean it? Discussions like these do amuse me. I try, but I cannot refuse the Jabs and the Stabs, The pokes in the abs; From this thread you'll just have to excuse me ::mog
Eh it is all in a friendly way here. No one yelling at each other. There are a few people here that have to agree to disagree.. but I do really enjoy hearing different opinions. Fuzzy
See my above quote from FDR's Treasury Secretary. Sorry, but the Keynesian model has never proven true. Dumping money into the economy by government didn't help in the Depression, and it also didn't help in the '70s. Saying any spending will stimulate the economy is like saying any liquid will put out a fire. Look, this isn't a situation where you have to do "something," as if anything you throw at the problem is going to solve it. As someone wrote, when your house is burning down, you can't just do "something." Some things will help, some things won't. Throwing water on the fire will help. Throwing paint thinner won't. The problem with this bill is it takes the approach of throwing everything, INCLUDING the kitchen sink, at the problem and hoping something sticks. Actually, they don't care so much if it does, because it pays off enough people that they won't suffer if it does fail, and then they can just blame it further on Bush, saying he ruined the economy so much it is too difficult to fix with just one massive spending bill. Don't believe me? The exact thing happened with Hoover. Hoover certainly helped contribute to turning what should have been a recession into a massive depression, but all the history books make it out like he single-handedly destroyed the American dream. In fact, Obama has already talked down the bill before it has even passed - buying himself insurance with his talk about how we can't expect to see immediate results from this bill that is absolutely critical and is supposed to provide immediate stimulus.
I am probably the only one on TSD that was around during the depression years. Most of you have never known what real hunger is. I have eaten fried lard sandwiches, because that is all there was to eat. Once a month we saved up enough money to have a bowl of sweet rice each (white rice, butter, milk, and sugar). Whatever meat we could find, trap, or kill...... we ate. Might have been possom, 'coon, squirrel, or even a stray dog. Don't laugh, for there is no jest in my words. Only sorrow. Sorrow that any kid should have to experience that. Sorrow that it was mostly caused by people who we would never know. Sorrow that the lessons learned back then have been forgotten today. Honestly, I hope this all works. But, I know better. I have seen this all before, and it will not work. This guy you people elected is going to lead our beloved nation down a dark road. A road already cut by past socialist regimes, and paved with the flesh and blood of the citizens of those nations. I will pray. And all you should pray too, that I am wrong about all this. That is all I have to say about that.
I have followed the thread from the beginning. I have also read up on the economic situation. I still don't understand how the proposed solution (the stimulus package) will solve the problem. Here's my understanding of things: 1. People spent beyond their means with the aid of bad loans from banks. 2. The people can't cover their debt, and the banks played games with the money from the bad loans and in the end, they can't cover the debt either and so they end up going under, which leaves no money for lending or anything else that makes the economy work. Thus, productivity grinds to a halt. 3. The government steps in, and announces its intention to solve the problem by spending beyond its means. By this, I mean the government doesn't actually have the money it's giving away. It is taking on massive debt which will have to be paid back in the future. Now- both Dem and Rep parties proposed this solution, so it isn't a "they did this" kind of situation. I don't get how taking on more debt solves a debt problem. The solution, to me, lies in cutting spending and paying down the debts you already have. You know, spending within your means. The government's money is our money, and I don't know about you, but things are already tight around my house. I'm looking at losing my job in the near future, and no government program will replace it. Massive government spending in the present will result in massive taxes and devalued currency in the future. I just don't get how this bill will actually solve anything. I'd honestly like to see some hope in this bill- please correct me if you see something wrong in my logic.
That first part only deals with the Banking Crisis and the Bank Bailout a few months ago. This new stimulus package deals with a whole other set of problems that throwing money at only exacerbates. The government hasn't spent within their means for a long time. Any meaningful solutions will have to start with eliminating the Federal Reserve.
And that's just the thing- most of the stuff in the stimulus package appears to have nothing to do with the original problem. As I see it, it's yet another social engineering experiment funded by taxpayer money. This isn't the time for experimentation; it's time for tightening our belts and going without for a while. The longer we put that off the worse it gets...
Sounds like you have a perfect understand of what is going to happen, the govt is going to devalue the dollar and drive inflation. They are going to call it stimulus.. I pray that I am wrong, but I fear greatly that I am not. I fear greatly that I have given the last 19 years of my life in service of this country, defending an ideal and a way of life, to watch the govt piss it away. One thing is certain, the country we are leaving for our children and grandchildren will be a vastly different place. I am not blaming this on any particular party, they are both guilty, and we as a nation are just as guilty for electing them and in doing so condoning their behavior. This is not the end of the spending, President Obama has at least two more spending plans in the wings. One to the tune of between 1.5 and 2 trillion dollars as a second part to the bank bailout, and another that I have not heard a dollar figure on for housing relief.
I heard an interesting thing tonight about the "stimulus" bill. Typically the bills are distributed the members of the house and senate electronically, to allow for easier scanning of the bill, since they are often quite lengthy. This time that was not done - and the bill was over 800 pages. On top of that, they pushed it through the House and Senate very quickly. What does this mean? They knew it would be next to impossible for most people to read it in so short a time - only a day or two between the House-Senate compromise and the vote. So most don't even know what all is in the bill. So this is what we have to show for this new era of "transparency" in Washington. As I recall, much of the criticism of the TARP bill from Bush and Paulson was that there was not enough planning for it, and as a result the first $350 seems to have been squandered. So the solution is to pass an even bigger spending package with the same lack of serious debate and careful consideration. Why is it that it feels like the largest spending bill ever is being railroaded through Congress before anybody even has the opportunity to read the damn thing? And on top of all that, with all the criticism Bush got for overstepping his bounds and assuming too much power, we now have Obama's chief-of-staff taking over control of the census - something that absolutely should not be politicized. I'm still waiting for all of this hope and change I was promised. If all "change" means is that he will do things different than the last guy, then he already did that by not wearing his suit coat in the oval office. And right now, about the only hope I have is that things won't get screwed up too much.
Like hoggs at the trough. So much for "change". Sounds like business as usual in Washington - just a lot more of it. :sick007 Jordan
The only Hope and Change we have is Hoping that things Change. You know the old saying about hope right? Hope in one hand and s**t in the other and see which one fills up first...
So, what do you guys think of this "Pork-u-lus Bill" now??!! One more thing this joker you all put in the White House has lied about. According to him, this bill would have ZERO earmarks. Turns out it is the single largest spending bill this nation has ever had. And most of the spending is "Pork". Good job, America. Because of all you that voted this guy in office, we will one day be known as the U.S.S.A. Glad I will be dead by then.
