With companies like Polaris and Arctic Cat laying people off I'd love to think that the people who CAN afford buy ATV's or would if more trails were available would spike sales and get these people their jobs back, putting food on the table and heck, even getting an ATV themselves.
The whole big oddity of a problem behind the whole thing is this......... The government does not have any money!!! All that money they are using is money we paid in!! A little thing called TAXES!!! Folks need to wake up before it is too late, and we find ourselves in a gutter, right next to Russia.
My point. Thank you and well stated. I'm not going to claim our tax structure is perfect or that it may not need an overhaul. However I will never be one of those anti-taxes guys. Tax dollars keep this country running. Everything depends on them: roads, schools, travel, public safety, health, the list is endless. I don't mind giving back part of what I make to help this country operate.
I think most folks understand the concept of the stimulus package. Where the confusion lies is in some of the areas the government has chosen to stimulate.
Not sure but I don't think that's what rolls was saying at all. Yes, we need taxes for all those things. My problem is we don't really seem to have much say in where our tax dollars go.
I totally agree. He was elected to do make changes, and what's the easiest change to make? Why, spending more money of course! This is exactly what he was elected to do. People want change, so here it comes. It's hard to believe we have a trillion dollars floating around for all that pork, but maybe now that Democrats have control of both House and Senate, Mr. Paulsen won't have to get on his knees and beg for its passage like he did for the last one. Just turn on the printers, borrow a little more money, and everything will be better. I will remember this bill on the day when the US cannot borrow enough money to pay just its interest on the national debt Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this bill cost the US more $ than the entire Iraq war effort has thus far? It is like DC thinks there is an endless supply of money: 850 billion / 300 million is almost 3 grand per citizen. I wonder if that could help the economy? That's $12,000 that Obama wants to add to my family's tab. "No Lee, he won't tax you he'll only tax the wealthy" - so he'll put mine and all my coworkers' tax burden on my employer, fantastic. Look for more of my stuff in the classifieds :mad: As you can see, it definitely has me going [Edit: I will remember the day of the passing of this bill when insolvency presents itself to the public at large. Runaway inflation and demands on our debt cannot be staved off forever. At some point all the borrowing and all the printing to fund these efforts is not going to be enough to stop the inevitable. I had hoped change would be a reversal of the runaway spending, but it appears that even more spending is the change that is already scheduled to define the next four years in one bill alone.] We do? Well, we do need taxes to pay for all those things, but we can't even pay our own mortgages apparently
I agree. Taxes are a necessary part of our system. My point is that alot of people have the perception that all that money is the governments. Folks always talk about "let the government pay for it for a change". Well, where the hell do they think that money comes from? It came out of our paychecks!! It IS our money. We just agree to pay a small percentage out so that our schools can get supplied, our roads can be more efficient, and life can just roll a bit smoother.
Excellent thought. Kind of like in a car crash you worry about the heart and lungs first.. then the rest. Fuzzy
I agree. Even if I could afford an ATV, I would not buy one. Not my thing. There are plenty of things that NEED to be worked on in this country and would generate jobs. ATVs??
you have the rock star american idol president, who is going to be able to get a lot of stuff done because he is the chosen one in a lot of peoples' eyes. if he does something dumb, a lot of those folks aren't going to question him, because that then questions their decision to support him. the problem is, as you've pointed out, the frivolous things in a larger blanket bill that will get passed because "oh, we have a terrible problem, only a drastic change help it!!!! ooh, no!!! F1! F1!" (F1 = help in computer lingo) Two years ago I worked for a school district that tried to pass a bond - lots of wonderful stuff in it, a new high school, new roof for the elementary, lots of updates and upgrades, good stuff, things everyone in town wanted to see. But there were other things in this massive bond that were glaring problems - we really don't need a "Taj Mahal" of high schools, just one that meets our needs and provides adequate resources for students; we really don't need a new college-level-tech field house, when 80% of the coaches need help turning the monitor on, etc etc. A lot of nice things, but a lot of things that were to shine the "oh look at me and how great I am and the great things we've done" light on the (new, and one-year wonder superintendant), and school board members. all the opposers were talked at like they didn't support the school and hated the town...no, we supported the majority of the bond, it was the details that tried to get passed stealthily that was the problem, they got called on it. Same thing with packages in the past "oh you must hate America/Obama/Bush/cute kittens because you agree/disagree/voted for/voted against whatever bill/package/benefit/whatever. it's not the package, it's the details. they figure they have the majority, they can get things done, and I think of alot of the things will be good, it's the hidden things that are the danger and why I disagree and anxious about our president. for example, ATV trails = ATV's running = gas used = "global warming" yet, the same bill to do this also has a fund for global warming research? gimme a break! anyway, so much more, but I will stop there. I'm not attacking anyone/thing, just stating that the problem is not the bill itself (theoretically speaking), but the goofy details that can get through when everyone's attention is diverted
Should be a lively debate. I've actually participated in this discussion more than planned. I offer my best wishes for this threads survival. . I'm not taking my toys and going home either. Just don't have the heart for another stress topic today. I'll meet you all in the soap forum though! :happy102
I think you already are right next to Russia.. Sarah Palin said she could see it from her kitchen window...
I'd like to say this thread is staying quite civil, IMO. I'm not detecting any hostilities between the participants so far. I applaud you all for that. :happy096 People are frustrated, jobs are going down the drain, economical stress is rising. It can be good to discuss these things, as long it remains calm. And I'll applaud Shep :happy096 for deciding to remove himself from the thread because he feels it is/'will be a stressful one. We can all take a lesson from him. I know I can. :ashamed001
Jim that was well put. I am often not able to express things well. Shep this thread will stay on track.. I promised the Queen after all. I will attack people's point of view sometimes I admit. But here all I am asking is for people to try to explain it to me. Fuzzy
Oh I agree. So far so good. As mentioned yesterday TSD'ers do a pretty good job monitoring themselves. Just no heart for a lively political debate today. Me tired and me sleepy. Me want peace and tranquility today.
Okay, so I was going to stay out of this thread but I will offer some input to Zook's thinking on the ATV's. I have a mountain that is literally a 25 mintute drive from me and I am at the peak. For the last 2 months that moutain has been packed and I mean packed with people from Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa and Wyoming are filtering up there to ride snowmobiles and ATV's. More money for trails means more activity. Each snow mobile must be licensed, registered AND pay for a trail fee (at least here in WY). These vehicles need gas and they also need trailers to transport. Trailers need to be pulled by trucks or suv's. These vehicles require gas, especially from those that will and do travel long distances. The people that come here need food and drink so the local economy gets a boost. They also need a place to sleep. Of course these people also don't want to just ride their toys they also like to look around town and spend money. I know some of you think I am stretching but I am not. Buffalo, WY is a tourist town and most of the dowtown business thrive on tourists. No tourists means no business. And this town thrives. Oh yeah, I forgot. SUV's and trucks get stuck on mountain and I either get to pull them out $$$$ or sell them parts such as transfer cases and transmissions$$$. Just my 2 cents worth but I think you have to think outside of the box on some of this stimulus money. ATV roads money effects a lot more than just ATV drives much like other parts of the bill. I know that a lot of the stimulus is pork but some of it is good.
