Suehiro Goyumko 20K Hone

I'm interested in anyone's experience with this hone. I recently bought one and notice it comes with a slurry stone.

Do you need to use the slurry stone as you would with a JNAT or coticule and keep diluting the slurry or can you just spray water on the hone as you would a Naniwa and then hone?

I also wonder if there a point in getting a Thuringian stone now that I have this synthetic hone. I might do a trade of some traditional kamisori for one.

How many strokes do most people do to finish a honing sequence or for touchup?

 

(waiting to read other's response(s) to this query)

 

Also, can you hone on either side of the hone? One side has the name stamp on it. If you hone across the writing does that hinder the honing?

 

Me too

 

I thought Mike would chime in about now.

 

You can use the slurry stone but I prefer to use the Chosera 600 grit dressing stone, I use it under running water to clear a little swarf build up I don't see the need to build a slurry with this stone, because you will be likely coming off at least a 12K before you hit the 20K so I don't see the benefit of making a slurry in the same way you would use a natural stone.

 

Friends, I'm going to paste here the PM I just responded to Lindy about this stone, as I hadn't noticed this thread yet:

Robert-
Splash and go.
I use mine purely as a finisher, usually after running through a pyramid progression with 8K and 12K Naniwa SS for touch-ups or if the straight already has my 1K bevel. Example stroke count:

8K/12K
25/25
20/20
15/15
10/10
5/5
3/3
1/3
1/5

Then, 40 strokes on the SG20K with a generous bit of water keeping the stone very wet. I want minimal swarf left on the stone when finishing; I want it all to rinse away.

I've found about 10~15 strokes on 0.25 micron diamond CrOx* sprayed linen "softens" and smooths the edge a bit without impacting sharpness when coming off of the SG20K. This replicates almost indistinguishably the edge I would get coming off of my Nakayama and does it in literally one tenth of the time.

I see no need to use slurry unless using the SG20K for other than a finisher. I would periodically use only my Nakayama from bevel setting to finish by diluting slurry, but only for fun and to try to fully utilize some of the stone's different capabilities. Took forever to do this, but it was fun as an academic exercise.

I saw this fellow a bit back, and thought it was cool to see him make the SG20K do the work of a good J-Nat:



It's totally fine to hone on the stamp side. If it were a J-Nat and you were trying to preserve the stamp we'd avoid it, but the SG20K stamp is redundant to it's packaging and labeling. As far as I'm concerned, if we don't need the stamp to characterize the stone as we would a natural rock, the heck with it.

So, a long winded answer to your questions!

Any others, hit me up. I've been enjoying the heck out of mine. It literally stopped my HAD dead in it's tracks.

Mike



ALSO: As I understand it, the small stone included with the SG20K is intended to be used as a cleaning stone.


*SORRY! I was thinking CrOx when I typed "diamond". My bad.

 

I just asked Mike this, but would you ever just use the 20K for touchups instead of CrOx or would you start back with the 12k or earlier first?

 

I realize in the first bit you answered my question about touchups. So you go back that far for touchups?

 

It depends on the straight and what condition the edge is in and what it's doing by the time I decide to take it to the hones. I tend to milk my edge along towards the end of it's service with pasted strops, so with some (most) steels, when it's time to hone, my edge will benefit from going back to 8K. With my J-Wests, Swedes, or stainless blades, this was never necessary, 12K was sufficient.

 

Mike,

A newbie question, when doing a pyramid progression you go back and forth between the 8k and 12k stone? 25 strokes 8k then 25 strokes 12k then 20 strokes 8k then 20 strokes 12K...

I just want to be sure before I give this a try.

A second question I just picked up a Shapton 16k. Should I use it in the same manner you describe for the SG20k? I have an 8k and 12k stone.

 

The pyramid is just as you supposed, example: 25 strokes 8k-> 25 strokes 12k; 20 strokes 8k-> 20 strokes 12k, and so on down through the pyramid.

I don't have any experience with the Shapton, but understand most folks use it as a finisher, following the 12k in your situation. I'd try 40 strokes after the pyramid and adjust the number of finishing strokes after a shave test or two .

 

Mike...having just recently begun using the SG20k (thanks, Lou!), the first razor I used on it (a W&B true wedge; 40 laps) shaved considerably smoother than just off the 12k.
I read your follow-up and it piqued my interest.
I have a pasted strop of hard-pressed wool I use sometimes — one side is .5 micron CrOx paste; the other is .25 micron diamond spray— so naturally I'm curious about trying some post-SG20k lap on the strop...
Hmmmmm....

 

Diamond sprays apparently leave a harsher edge than does CrOx at similar abrasive ratings (or so I've been told), so I generally try to keep CrOx as my finer grit spray. Diamond apparently prefers hard felt, and CrOx linen. I haven't tried either 0.5 micron CrOx or 0.25 Diamond, so I'm not sure if you'll get any mileage, though it's entirely possible.

Maybe try 10 laps or so CrOx, then 10 Diamond, and then 20 plain linen to work out any harshness from the diamond. Ordinarily we wouldn't even sweat 0.25 micron diamond for a final, but since the point of the exercise is to see how much we can sweeten the edge coming off of the SG20K with minimal labor investment, give it a shot!

Let me know, now I'm curious...

 

Then there is always a step finer, 0.125 micron CBN(cubic boron nitride) sprayed on nano cloth on glass.

 

I haven't used CBN but have heard it's praises sung. Sounds like a set up (CBN, nano cloth, glass) you have some experience with..Do tell!

 

The nano cloth supposedly allows more of the solution to sit on top of the it, so you get the true "grit". Occasionally when I've honed a razor, I go the 1K, 5K, 8K, 12K route and then 0.50 chromium oxide, 0.25 diamond slurry and finish off on the CBN on nano cloth. It does make the edge feel a bit smoother, like a coticule feel almost. Looking back on it, maybe just chromium oxide is sufficient.

These pastes go much higher in grit rating than a 20K or 30K hone, I believe.

 

Here's a Ken Schwartz video talking about the CBN.

 

It's threads like this that remind me ignorance is bliss. Now I am tortured should I buy Gyuumko 20k or not? It is a pricey stone but since I purchased my Feon from Mike I keep researching the cheapest way to buy and ship the stone to Korea.

I just added a Shapton glass 16k so I am going to try to hold off for a while....

 

I think you're good to go as you are. Just add some chromium oxide on balsa or other surface and you will be fine. Some people on the British forums just use pastes for their whole honing sequence.

Also, I've honed many of my razors on lapping film.