The Jarrod Plate

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by Edison Carter, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    As I view it, if the razor doesn’t have a perfect geometry, it is crummy.

    But, who is going to throw away a razor that can be refined to a nice shaving edge? Certainly not the guys trying to sell them.

    I wouldn’t know where to tell someone to go and get a modern non-custom straight razor without the possibility of getting a dog.

    I have long said that honing is a skill that needs to be learned.

    While I enjoy my straights and don’t plan to abandon them, they all lack the precision of the modern manufactured Feather Artist Club replaceable blade system. You get to know how many shaves a blade lasts, how it performs as it ages, and that it is always consistent and repeatable. If I get a crummy shave it is me, period.

    I just want to figure out how to create an edge on a crummy German, French, or Chinese razor for myself.

    One of my issues with buying hones already convexed was the longer term consistency and maintenance of that tool. This lapping plate resolved that issue for me. I resurfaced 3 convex stones and freshly surfaced a synthetic and can easily repeat this. In the lapping process , a stiction feel developed indicating a remarkable amount of precision.

    All my convex stones will have a very close user interface. Meaning, that the style one uses from one stone to the next is the same. I can set a bevel on the really fast soft ark then move to the coticule, then finish on the 12k or the black ark. When one sharpens a bent up razor on a progression of flat stones he uses his skills to apply the same torquing pressure method, one or stroke type used to set the bevel to further refine his edge. Honing on a convex surface is similar but a different maneuver that I just found it easier to do.

    One thing I firmly believe, If Jarrod’s business fails to survive, so will a very simple and repeatable precision method to convex a razor hone. I’m glad I got one of his plates.

    I have no intention to attempt to convert anyone or receive any personal gain. I would be interested in seeing anyone that struggled with honing like I did, consider their options.

    Numerous folks get great shaving edges using abrasive films. Another option I haven’t tried yet.
     
    Steve56 likes this.
  2. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Yeah there is a gssixgun mention in the Title and Marty and Steve it gets him hits by using our names Duhhhhh

    Look it is really simple, if this method actually did what he originally claimed it would have created a Concave bevel, anyone that knows edges knows this is NOT a desirable thing

    One I doubt it even does that
    Two if it did it would not be advantageous, don't take my word for it, do you own research
    Three we actually try to produce a "Bevel edge" but because of Slurry and Stropping we trend toward a Convex Bevel (Do your Research)

    Four I am getting really tired of this little weasel using my name to get hits and clicks


    And most important ... Five

    I hope Dovo and anyone else continues this practice, I enjoy the money I make from correcting their inept edges.. I should encourage it rather than warn you, but I HATE seeing people tear up good razors

    Hone On !!!!
     
  3. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Oh one other thing

    It bugs him to call it "Wet Shaving: when it is allegedly called "Whet Shaving" the audacity of the entire Shaving community
     
  4. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    Well I guess I figured the posting of my experience would renew some long standing bad blood.

    My apologies to the members here at TSD.

    I welcome administration here to delete this thread entirely if I have been out of line.

    Bill
     
  5. Primotenore

    Primotenore missed opera tunity

    Article Team
    No matter what method one chooses to hone his own personal property, one shouldn't post disrespectful messages. Offer suggestions. Ask questions, by all means, but this thread went from interesting to catty in a millisecond. The OP deserves to not have his thread disrupted.
     
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  6. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Paperboy

    Article Team
    The inventor of method shaving ended up cementing the online forum dogma of "mapping grain direction" in retaliation/protest against method shaving. Face mapping might never have become a thing if not for method shaving.

    Two sides to every coin.
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  7. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Paperboy

    Article Team
    Off and on throughout yesterday and today, I've been digging through various knife, shaving, and wood working forums on the topics of various bevel grinds.

    Jarrod is definitely bucking the "conventional wisdom" trend when it comes to sharpening. I can see an immediate edge benefit, the 'keener' edge he talks about in the video, but long term, the edge on your blade will wear out faster (overall sharpenable steel on the blade) and get dull much more rapidly, since there is less steel backing the edge. It all goes back to the Slicing vs. Chopping argument as best I can tell. The thinner edge created by Jarrod's methods slices hairs easier, but at the cost of sacrificing a good deal of edge support, which means the blade will need to be rehoned earlier than it would have otherwise.

    If a person is careful when honing, it should be easy enough to avoid a frowning edge on the blades, but the hone geometry will naturally tend towards a frowning blade unless the honer takes great care not to use any more pressure than is needful.

    My take is that this method will probably wear out hones and blades decades earlier than conventional methods. Not such a great loss, when you consider than well maintained blades and hones ought to last a half century or more, but more than I personally am comfortable with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
    ischiapp and Edison Carter like this.
  8. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    My key interest in the use of a convex hone was to easily hone crappy bent up razors like those made in Germany, France and China.

    Convex hones do exactly that, without requiring 20 years of service in the Razor Honing Brigade.

    I have no interest in trying to hand hone a 14 degree razor bevel to be less or custom shape a bevel with anticipation of any improvement in the hair cutting ability. It will never match the ability of a precision machined Feather Artist Club Professional Super blade used in the holder it was designed for.

    A frowning edge is more easily avoided on a crappy bent up razor with a convex hone than a flat if used properly. One narrow point on the spine contacts one narrow point on the edge and a single stroke pattern moves across the entire length unless you want to focus on a small area.
     
    PLANofMAN likes this.
  9. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Paperboy

    Article Team
    That's always the kicker, isn't it? The difference between triumph and disaster is usually summed up in those three little words.
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  10. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    It is.

    I have never been able to learn to properly use the tools others have to accomplish my objective.

    This brought me success easily.
     
    PLANofMAN likes this.
  11. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    @PLANofMAN

    Ryan, if I remember you name correctly.

    Do you possess a warped straight razor that you personally have struggled in honing up an edge to your satisfaction? If so, would you be willing to participate in a little science project? Nothing you would not be willing to allow me to purchase at a fair market value please.

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
    PLANofMAN likes this.
  12. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Paperboy

    Article Team
    Sadly, no, I don't. Collecting straight razors has never been one of my vices. I only own a few, and those I keep razor sharp for the once or twice a year use I put them to. ...and I prefer wedge grinds, which this system does not work with.

    Sharpening metal, on the other hand, has been a hobby of mine since I was in the single digits. I think I've got the hang of things, but I like to keep an open mind to new (or old) ideas.
     
    ischiapp likes this.
  13. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    Question.

    Would an extremely smiled Siato razor have the entirety of the edge and the entirety of the spine in full contact on a perfectly flattened stone?
     
  14. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    It would work. You just have to put enough tape on the spine.

    But why? As I see it, a wedge grind is ideally suited to a precisely flattened hone without tape.
     
  15. ischiapp

    ischiapp Well-Known Member

    "Beginner Model" of the Honenist: a mostly-cylindrically-concave honing solution.
    Similar to Standard to make bi-convex hone, but easier with mono-convex result.
    Any thoughts?


    BTW, a lewd name.
    :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
    Edison Carter likes this.
  16. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    I like the elliptical convex for the simple reason it helps me compensate for an inconsistency in a tool made by a human being.

    I find imperfections in some of my straights.

    He recently did a video where he set bevel with the cylindrical and finished on the elliptical.

    I’m not going to do both and make the elliptical my only choice.
     
  17. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    Lewd name???
    If you’re referring to the CT or Custom Title under my name, these are assigned by the forum owner not chosen by the user.
     
  18. ischiapp

    ischiapp Well-Known Member

    Honenist ...
    :lyrtuy5:
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  19. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Paperboy

    Article Team
    Figured I'd resurrect this thread. I was watching a video on hand crank grinders when there was a reference to convex stones. As best I can transcribe, this is verbatim...
    "An old woodworking curmudgeon, like, that has more knowledge in his head than anybody, um, told me to slightly convex the face of the stone, so that when you are grinding, only the center of the stone is touching the metal and that really helps prevent you from burning your tool."

    The person relating this also mentioned that this sounds counterintuitive, and noted that this was for rough setting the bevel only, and that finishing work was always done on water and oil stones afterwards.

    In this context, it makes perfect sense to me, as I have noticed blades (not razor blades) growing warm to the touch when used on a rough whet stone. I can see where this would be an advantage when a person is setting razor bevels in a rapid production environment. It would be a huge time saver. It's less important to the home honer who can afford to take their time and leisurely hone at a slow pace.

    Anyway, thought it was interesting. Hope it helps anybody considering this type of setup.

    Edit: here's the video/podcast. Relevant discussion starts around the 18:45 minute mark.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  20. Edison Carter

    Edison Carter Goo-bloomin' Stankster

    A crowned surface stone takes much longer to dish out than a flat stone. Matter of fact, it moves towards flat first.

    I noticed Naniwa SS to dish out very quick. Theoretically, it starts at the first stroke.

    Abrasive films on glass maintain flatness.
     

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