Traditional brush usage vs. Modern methods

Discussion in 'The Brush' started by JBSharp, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. JBSharp

    JBSharp Well-Known Member

    I've seen this alluded to in other posts, including the excellent brush info posts in this forum, but I haven't gotten a satisfying answer so I'll ask the question directly. We generally all like to see our brushes bloom, but it seems that very few vintage brushes have blooms like we're used to. Is this because earlier shavers used the bristle tips rather than spreading the brush? If so, is that simply because the brushes were narrower and stiffer than most of today's brushes (or vice versa)?

    Alternatively, is the lack of bloomed vintage brushes due to the fact that heavily used, softer badger brushes didn't survive the years as well as the stiffer bristle brushes? I'm sure that some of you folks have the experience and wisdom to answer this. I'm also ready to acknowledge that my perception isn't reality, and there are plenty of bloomed vintage brushes around.
     
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  2. fram773

    fram773 Well-Known Member

    Waiting for GDCarrington....
     
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  3. JRod22

    JRod22 Well-Known Member

    Just from what I've seen when looking at vintage brushes on eBay, the vast majority are boar brushes which typically don't bloom much. Also I think brushes used to be made with small knot sizes like 18mm. That could also be to blame. And the longer a brush goes without use, I think the bloom retracts a bit. My badgers are usually back to a manageable size by the time I get around to them again.

    Just throwing some ideas around.
     
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  4. tuxxdk

    tuxxdk International Penguin of Mystery

    Many vintage are, as far as I'm aware, horse? If so, then they don't bloom like a boar. My horse is much less bloomie than my boars.

    Also just some thought-throwing :)
     
  5. 178-bplatoon

    178-bplatoon Well-Known Member

    My daily use brush is a #6 horse hair(?) from bestshave and I've used a Vie-Long horse hair brush also... While I've used other brushes(in the beginning at least), but the great majority of lathers I've made have come from the #6.. I find the amount or lack of bloom from both(#6 & Vie-Long) to be perfect for me, neither seems to bloom as much as brushes I see in pics here and on the web..I've also bought and used vintage boar(?) brushes off of ebay and used them, while they do seem to swell up some after washing and then use,they don't produce the bloom of a modern brush either..:)
     
  6. tuxxdk

    tuxxdk International Penguin of Mystery

    It's my believe the #6 is boar. Hence the bloom also.
     
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  7. 178-bplatoon

    178-bplatoon Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know "EXACTLY" for a fact what causes the bloom??:confused:
     
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  8. battle.munky

    battle.munky Has the menthol.munky on his back!

    I don't know what causes bloom other than water weighing down the bristles and causing them to lay more outward, but that is just a supposition based on a 3 second thought and zero empiricism.

    As far as the brushes themselves, I've had several and used them with their original bristles the same as I use my modern ones and only had one that even sorta bloomed.

    I think a lot of it has to do with smaller loft and perhaps bristles gauge. The bristles appear to be a bit thicker on the older ones. Perhaps back then they hadn't sourced the hairs from the softer part of the hog?

    Anyway, great question and I'll be following to see what everyone comes up with.
     
  9. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    I have and use several vintage brushes; most are boar, but I do have one badger that has a nice bloom to it.

    I would tend to agree with some of the theories mentioned concerning the boar: smaller knot, shorter loft, thicker bristles. I've also noticed that many are "warped" from sitting in a mug bristles down for who knows how many years. Don't know if that plays a factor or not, just thinking out loud.
     
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  10. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    There are two different approached taken in prior days.

    Cost / Pricing was the driver.

    1. Less expensive brushes made of horse or boar. Eventually after the anthrax deaths that ended the use of horse hair. These hairs would not bloom in the same sense as badger can. You saw a lot of old Ever Ready, Rubberset, Erskine and others of that class using the vertical stalk with a 18 - 20 mm knot that would not bloom. When these companies would use badger (in their more expensive brushes) they primarily use a mixed badger stock (mostly what we classify today as Pure) and set the knot tight so the bloom was still in play but highly minimized. The majority of users simply wanted to get lather on the face and were not worried about loft settings and bloom. They also did not, for the most part, collect brushes. Remember that during the 1930s through the 1940s most people did not have the money or access to expensive brushes due to economic depression and war. So the mass marketers made large quantities of low cost, low price brushes to fit the times and discretionary spending levels. This was reflected both in the US and the rest of the world. However, craftsmanship tended to be higher than what occurs in low cost consumer items made today, so many handles survived in good enough shape to be restored today. That was never the intent of the manufacturer of the brush. They made it good enough that when the knot wore out, the user would buy a new brush.

    2. More expensive brushes such as Simpsons, Kent, and others that used larger knots and different grades of badger which do bloom nicely, however a majority of the brushes produced were not the monster 26 mm and higher sized knots that we see today.

    Remember, what we now have is a niche market versus a mass market that occurred in the mid 1950s and earlier (canned goo was first marketed in 1949). So the brush makers were having to have a large amount of user base and a given amount of hair to use. Hairs were used more sparingly to meed demand levels. Most brushes were made with boar hair to meet demand levels. When canned goo came out and became overwhelming popular, there was far fewer people buying brushes and the niche market that we have today was set in place. The mass marketers such as Ever Ready, Rubberset, Erskine and others saw the hand writing on the wall and simply left the market for other pursuits. When those manufacturers left, you had only the higher end brush makers left to carry on in the niche market, so the mix of what was available changed very quickly.

    I hope this helps.
     
  11. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    The living badger has hair growing to replace hair that is lost so the newer hair looks in order.

    When the hair is removed from the badger and placed in a brush, the hair absorbs water and product. When the hair dries it begins to distort based on the internal structure and how much product can be trapped in the small micro-fissures contained in the hair. The combination of repeated drying and absorption of product, expands and distorts the hair causing the bloom to take place.
     
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  12. tuxxdk

    tuxxdk International Penguin of Mystery


    Let me explain myself. I was on the phone earlier and moving, so it was hard to write.

    I saw a thread here a while ago regarding the "horse #6" from Bestshave. I concluded that the #6 indeed was a boar, and not horse. I've searched further and it seems that this #6 shares knot with other cheap makers, including Shaving Factory of which I also have one. And the knot on those two are _exactly_ the same, looks and performance.

    Now, the Vie-Long horse I have is a completely different knot, like a car vs. motorcycle and not like a Toyota vs. Nissan where it's the smaller differences but potato potato in the end. All my boars bloom in the same way, big and wild. The #6 falls in that category. Now, the Vie-Long is totally another story.

    That gives me the believes that the #6 is definitely boar, no matter what the website that sells it states.
     
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  13. Slipperyjoe

    Slipperyjoe Rusty Metal Tetanus

    Ah..finnnally..:eatdrink047:

    I think your right, the 6 is in fact boar. You can tell cuz the tops of the bristles, I believe, split on them..horse hair does not...
     
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  14. 178-bplatoon

    178-bplatoon Well-Known Member

    Thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge and opinions on "the bloom"...I'm still a little confused as so many of the explanations make good sense..The real answer is probably a mixture of answers given here, with hair type, hair gauge, knot diameter/density and loft height in my mind being prominent factors..I don't know if all this info helps me or just makes me more confused :confused: :) I do know that I appreciate all the help from everyone, it's just another example I.M.O. of what makes TSD such a "WONDERFUL" place to hangout in and be associated with...:happy088:
     
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  15. JBSharp

    JBSharp Well-Known Member

    Wow. I've been reading these replies but only now have I had time to stop and write back. I appreciate all of your input and insights. It seems that my perception wasn't off, although it was incomplete, and there are various factors at play. The history and engineering are fascinating. I myself just got a Vie-Long horse/boar mix, a narrow knot with long, stiff bristles, so I'll be getting some first-hand experience with all of this in mind.
     
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  16. crackstar

    crackstar Israeli Ambassador to TSD

    I believe you are correct on that, sir!
     
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  17. Slipperyjoe

    Slipperyjoe Rusty Metal Tetanus

    I don't know..maybe their starting a whole new thing and got mixed up somewhere along the way.. smileyschrugg.gif
     

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