Discussion in 'General Shaving Talk' started by PLANofMAN, Nov 26, 2018.
PolSilver. Fatboy. 'nuff said.
Well, that's just a little too cynical. Just ask Fuzzy.
Winner! We can close the thread
Are you trying to get a brick thrown at you? Cause that's how you get a brick thrown at you!
The issue with that is that a really raw rookie, to quote my 9th grade algebra teacher, may not "Know enough to know what to know." Before they take their first step, they're basically asking us to point them in a reasonable direction. After they take their first step (EJ, Merkur, Muhle, Maggard, etc.) they get a feel for what they like and dislike and can go from there.
I think your approach is perfect, but it strikes me as only being practical with people you personally interact with, friends, family, co-workers, and so on. Online, it's too easy for someone to be there with his hand out, and then disappear with the loaner.
A reasonable direction is here are things to consider...not you should buy xxx/the best is xxx.
I'm sorry, anyone who is aware that the market gives them choices ought to know there is no one right answer. And experienced people on the forum ought to give better advice , ie help people understand why there are diferences among shaving gear.
Agreed. That's the way I would answer such a question. But then, my daughters (one of whom is a professor at a local college) are constantly accusing me of lecturing too much and being too pedantic.
Let's consider how the internet has changed how people learn about items. I, too have been guilty of doing an internet search asking: What is the best...let's say washing machine. One is redirected to review websites, such as Consumer Reports, etc. I think it's fair to say that a washing machine, or snow blower can be reviewed and/or recommended using objective results; Clothes get cleaner, uses less water, throws the snow farther, etc.
So now we have cultivated a populace, old and young, who have come to rely on the internet to answer all of their questions. The big difference here is the nature of our hobby. I think we can all agree that not every razor, blade, brush, etc. will be regarded the same by each individual. We all have read or used the acronym YMMV. We know this. Newbies don't. How we react to their questions is what really matters and what might or might not encourage someone to stick with our hobby. The least we can do for them is, as some have already very adroitly pointed out, is to encourage them to discover what works best for them.
This is good advice
Good morning, gents.
This is an interesting discussion. It's one of those threads where I debated whether to comment or not. I decided to jump in. Since we are sharing opinions - and everyone's is different - I'll share mine.
In my experience, I have come to learn that human interactions are neither logical nor perfect. To make things even more interesting, my expectations around what constitutes good logic and perfection are uniquely mine. Your expectations will likely be different. However, I like to think I use decent logic after spending many years studying and working in a scientific field. When I was a young pup, I used to get frustrated by messy interactions with others...so I was frustrated quite a lot. As I've grown older, I'm trying to appreciate the differences in people. I'm a work-in-progress, have definitely not arrived by any means, and I can still be quite the old cynic at times.
On a personal level, I will ask folks with that I know well what they recommend, whether it's a razor, a car, or a TV. I don't mind if their responses are autobiographical. In fact, that's exactly what I'm looking for from them. Personally, I don't take this approach with people I don't know. For all I know, they could be some kinda nut. At other times, I'll do my own research and come to my own conclusions. In the shaving world, there are many informative websites, YouTube videos, and forums. Sure, just because someone creates a website or produces a video, it doesn't make them an expert. For that reason, I'll consider different resources, looking for verifiable facts as well as trends in thought and opinion. In other words, I am collecting data, and I enjoy doing it. Verifiable facts are facts, and in the shaving world, I have found that most often trends making use of a decent set of data are generally reliable. Emotion drives a lot of what is said and done in our hobby as well, and I rather enjoy seeing this thrown into the mix.
Having said all this, I hope we don't get to a point on TSD where we have libraries of locked resource threads. Dozens of other websites and forums come to mind where these resources are already available. Why would ours be any better? Just because we developed them? I'm here because I like the generally friendly banter, and it has been a great place for me to advance my knowledge and hopefully help a few others along the way. My posts are littered with autobiographical responses and maybe a fact or a bit of logic here and there. It's who I am. I'm not here to impress anyone, make people happy, or convince them to agree with me. I like to talk shaving with people that are interested in shaving, and I also just like to participate in friendly banter.
I rather enjoy someone discovering this great hobby (at least that's how I think of it) and asking any question in any way they want. I can always choose to reply or not. To be sure, the types of questions you'll receive from a 15-year-old could, but not always, be vastly different than from a 65-year-old. Life experiences and other factors always come into play. I'm also wise enough to know that some folks will post drive by questions for various reasons, never to be seen again. Sometimes I'll reply anyway, and sometimes not.
I've lurked on a few other hobby or special-interest forums, not just shaving-related, and I've found some that are not only unfriendly but are downright hostile. It's hilarious to think that hobbies like this are really that important in the big scheme of things. I don't understand posts that contain statements like use your search button or why are you resurrecting an ancient thread? I may feel this way at times, but there's no need to state it. Since we don't live in each others' heads, we don't know what someone else is thinking...whether it's the person resurrecting the old thread or the person that is ever so happy to respond and keep the discussion going. Who knows? Maybe I'm having a bad day and would be better served by sulking in a room by myself...and just not commenting at all. My bad day hopefully has little to do with anyone else, until I start making negative comments in my posts.
I sincerely hope TSD does not become like many of the other forums where I've observed that judgement and negativity have become embedded in the culture. Let's leave room for people that are just plain excited about discovering wet shaving, and let them ask questions anyway they want. I, for one, may choose to jump in with an opinion, a fact even, or just some friendly banter. Or not.
Keep in mind that a lot of folks lurk on TSD, and I'm sure they watch discussions like this to take the pulse of the forum. I am always pleased to see someone jump into the discussions after observing how friendly and welcoming we are as a community. I hope this never changes.
Again, this is just my opinion. I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree or even read it for that matter. And I really don't care if cold water actually closes my pores or not. It just feels nice after a good shave. Oh , I almost forgot, the Gillette NEW LC is the best DE razor.
Have a great day, gents, and smooth shaves!
I read it all, Charlie. Very eloquent. Thank you for taking the time.
It's all technique based. "Better" is a myth used to sell higher price point and margin products. I get the same results from all of them. Heck, I've even seen guys glue DE blades to Popsicle sticks and get a DFS! There hasn't been any real innovation in razors for fifty years.
Shoot for the moon! This is the fun area of wet shaving, largely subjective and up to the taste of the user.
Confuse newbies badly, and leave many with the feeling that "razor collecting" and "shaving" are the same. They're not. In fact, I see many guys sentence themselves to a never ending rotation of mediocrity because they weren't told my first point strongly enough. The answer to a poor shave isn't more razors, it's skill mastery.
almost on a case by case basis. many questions i have encountered have different meanings depending on situation and language barrier..sometimes i have to explain how something works in order for them to understand in their own way.
100% agree. (are you sensing a pattern here? I better be careful, lest I be labeled a "Bama Fan" )
Possibly. I might add that it really depends on which Forum. When I was a I would receive helpful, cynical, and on one particular forum, disdainful responses. When I taught voice at a University, every semester, I would have to start at the very beginning again with my vocal newbies, often enduring infantile questions. We experienced shavers on the forum have two choices: embrace and strive to educate (not all will be receptive) or ignore.
Each must make their own choice. Being an educator is a commitment.
But the internet has not changed the fact that there is no best washing machine either. That is why Consumer Reports always precedes their ratings with an article about what is being reviewed. What criteria they use, explain features, trade offs, etc.
Front load machines are generally more efficient than top load. Also more prone to mildew and bad smells. (Always the #1 complaint.) A stainless steel drum costs more up front, but will outlive the machine. Enameled steel is cheaper, but can rust and stain clothes if the enamel gets chipped. The number ratings that they give are useless if you don't read the article and learn for youself what you are looking for in a washing machine.
I was simply trying to make a comparison. Perhaps I made the wrong choice.
I started traditional shaving in order to get a better shave and my OCD nature lead me to seak out the 'best' DE. On other shaving sites, they are always hyping the latest and greatest and claiming they found the new holy grail or a "RAD killer. I found the style of razor I prefer and many people prefer a different style. Then I moved to straight razors, with straights there is little talk about what is the best razor.
My experience is that if the steel is good it is the honing that matters. Once you have a good edge is all up to having a good, wet, slick lather and your skills. In the end if the steel is good and the honing is good a $15 blade will shave just as good as a $1,500 blade. So why do I have so many straights? Well, they all look different and cool. Like art, the beauty of the razor is also subjective.
I like the fact you're stating all this. Razor collecting, and collecting hand crafted straights is a perfectly wonderful hobby!
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