Woah...Shoulda stopped sooner

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by JohnDB, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Billyfergie

    Billyfergie The Scottish Ninja

    upload_2017-3-20_18-14-29.jpeg
    :happy097:

    Billy..:chores016:
     
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  2. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    IMG_20170320_161850292~2.jpg
    Now this is a pic through the lense of my microscope.
    It's actually looking better than I expected.

    Going to give it a bit more honing and buffing then a few passes on the pasted wool and strop and see what comes.

    One thing is for certain...I need to lap and clean my honing stone at the first chance I can get. Dunno how I'm going to get that done.
     
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  3. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Looks pretty darn good. :happy096:
     
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  4. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    When you say buffing, are you using a buffer to polish the edge? I am still learning to hone razors, but have done a lot of tool and knife steel over the years. On these, I will put them on a buffer after I sharpen them, to polish out the apple seed profile of the edge. This works great on leatherworking knives, but the buffer will fold over the edge on a razor. Razors and knives are different beasts to sharpen. With a knife, you need sharp, and a little bit of toothiness actually helps it grab what ever you are cutting. With a razor, you need sharp, but you also need smooth. The comfort of a shave comes from the edge being sharp, straight, and smooth. The toothiness that lets a chief's knife dig right into a tomato skin will cause the razor to get caught on your whiskers, and provide a very uncomfortable shave. You also want a smooth bevel, not an apple seed profile. Grab a fresh DE blade, and look at it under the scope you used above. My straights, when done right, are typically smoother and more polished than my DE blades.
     
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  5. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    Precisely...
    Because I'm so new at this I'm probably not using the same terms and expression Everyone else is using.

    I've been studying knife edges a long time under microscope. And the angle I have used on my knives from Henkels is not ordinary for chef's knives.
    About 30 years ago they only had 3 grades of steel and chef's knives. I was poor but bought the professional series. It's steel was different than their 4 star series (and better) and made their international series knives look something like ginsu knives for steel cans.

    As a result of never loaning them out and always using butcher block or HDPE cutting boards I could keep a much finer edge on them than most other chef's thought about. I also polished that edge on the tri-stone pictured above. As a result of that polished edge (razor sharp) which would take a minimum of an hour to grind and polish I didn't have to sharpen my knives so often. A (#50) bag of carrots plus cases of celery, onions, potatoes and then butchering several cases of chickens every day was common for me to cut, chop, dice, julienne, and etc. NM about garlic, shallots, leeks, fish, and bell peppers (the worst of them all)
    I only needed to touch up with my sharpening steel (which slowly "apple seeded" my edge to keep up the pace. ) But when I narrowed the angle, which made the edge more fragile, my edge lasted two months instead of one.

    So...To me polishing and buffing is what happens when I use the pink and white stone (pictured above in a previous post...& I got a question about them in a minute) and my pasted wool felt that is what I mean by polishing and buffing...It's actually getting buffed and polished to a brilliant shine between the white stone and the pasted strop. Very light reflective and now I have a difficult time seeing the edge unless I can figure out a way to angle my light or blade to send the light back through the lense of the microscope. (Desk lamp isn't really ideal for this but I used what I had)


    So now time for my question.


    My two really hard stones (guessing that they are around 8 & 12k) are in need of repair. Definitely some more cleaning and resurfacing. I believe that the term used is lapping.
    What can I use to do this. I've read up on the procedure about making grid lines with a pencil on waterstones...But these are oilstones. Water ain't gonna do a thing to them or help in the least.
    Waterstones were a brand spanking new thing a few years after I bought these. But I knew nothing about them and never really got into sharpening my knives at work on their stones. (Had too much work to do... Unless the boss asked me for a favor)

    So. Both are desperately needing cleaning (the white probably will never go white again but maybe yellow?) And the pink has some gentle waves in the surface. (Not one big dent but several gentle waves)

    So...Kinda could stand to fix them up and not really sure how to do it.
     
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  6. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    Also,
    I compared the edge from my "singing blade" that shaves great from WD (it got the same stropping as my smiling blade) under the microscope I seen what looked like water drops of steel...But it was bone dry. And the light scratches seem to go lengthwise on the steel's edge. I'm not exactly sure what that is from. Very different from what I seen after creating an edge on my smiling blade. But now both are polished to the same shine.

    I was going to try it out tonight but my son (who dropped out of college *grumble grumble* ) is coming by for dinner tonight...So I won't get the chance. Maybe Thursday I'll be able to give a shave report.
     
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  7. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    I also interchange the words buffing and polishing. I believe they are "synonyms".
     
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  8. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    Shave Report:

    Well, I stayed up late and shaved.

    But I was a bit rushed for time so I'm not sure if it was my technique or the edge...I'm thinking both weren't exactly right.
    Curved blade... Haven't used one before and the pain was the reason for this thread.
    The edge wasn't right yet. It was LOTS better but I wasn't getting BBS out of it.
    It was leaving stubble behind like a dull razor blade might. So I swapped back to my other str8 and listened to toast buttering.
    And so...My dreams of BBS shaves out of this curved blade with lots of rich history are dashed yet again.

    I'm going try honing with my worn out stones one more time tonight and see if I can't get a satisfactory edge. I know that I'm close...Just not there yet. I know better can be had.
    And $400 for a starter set of stones not including a "lapping plate" or finishing stone ain't in the cards.
     
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  9. Spyder

    Spyder Well-Known Member

    A Norton 4/8 K combination stone will easily get you started. A fine stone that's consistent and easy to use. With some work ( if the bevel isn't too bad) a bevel can be set. You can shave off the 8K. I added lapping paper for a few bucks, just recently added a 1k and an Arkie. The whole progression in lapping film can be had for small outlay of $$ and will do as good of a job as stones. It just won't last as long.
     
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  10. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    Can you give me a link for them lapping films?
     
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  11. Spyder

    Spyder Well-Known Member

    I buy from my local industrial supplier. I think @Billyfergie can supply a link...
     
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  12. Billyfergie

    Billyfergie The Scottish Ninja

    I Live in the UK..Lapping Film is Freely Available in the USA & Cheaper than the UK..Google it & Avoid Amazon..:)

    Billy..:chores016:
     
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  13. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    So yeah, I think it was just terms not being what I was expecting. The finishing stone would do most of the polishing on a blade, and the angle for sharpening is right about 12 degrees, so having the spine on the stone will maintain that. Its much easier to hone a razor on a flat stone. For your finishers, do you know what kind of stones they are? It looks like an Arkansas set up. There is a thread on here about Arkies, that includes information on using SIC powder and a flat surface to lap them. I think that will be both the cheapest and fastest way to lap them. Trust me when I tell you, you don't want to try and lap an Arkie with a diamond plate. The SIC powder will lap them, and then you will need to burnish the surface to get them ready for a razor. If you end up with sharp corners on the stone, bevel them with the SIC powder. Sharpen a couple of carbon steel knives and they should be good to go. I think you are on the right track, and will just need more time on the stone to get the edge where you want it.
     
  14. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Funny you mentioned diamond plates and Arkies. I tried to lap my Arkie Surgical Black with a diamond plate. It tore the diamond plate up. Did nothing but put little scratches on the Arkie. Those were then smoothed out with wet/dry paper. The Surgical Black is one tough stone. Live and learn.
     
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  15. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    Yeah, I have another novaculite based hone I tried to lap with a DMT diamond plate. I wore out the plate and had to get a new one before I got the SIC powder. On the plus side my arms were ripped.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novaculite
     
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  16. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    I know how you felt.
     
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  17. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    IMG_20170322_174752580~2.jpg IMG_20170322_174733392~2.jpg

    I've been "lapping my two stones...
    Petroleum products from 30+ years have definitely changed the colors I remember from my youth. But after two hours of sanding on 320 grit wet/dry paper I'm seeing the color variations in one and something other than dark grey on the once white one.

    It's definitely slow going. The "white" on the top pic is foam from using soap and water.
     
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  18. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Wow, I see the wave on that black stone. You might go the lowest grit wet/dry you can find, then work your way up. If not, You will be at it a looooong while.
     
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  19. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    Here's the company that made my stones.

    Link

    Their name was on the side of the block holder.

    They are still in business. (Totally shocked myself)

    Apparently the white is 800 grit and they carry a black for surgical stuff. That wave in that top grey stone you're talking about in the bottom picture...I ain't putting that stone anywhere near my razor. That one is like 120-220 grit and all kinds of coarse.

    The wavy one is "soft Arkansas"...As if. It's still stupid hard. They don't mention a grit.
     
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  20. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

    Wait... Company is out of business...

    They now sell as vintage oilstones on eBay.

    So...The sharpening stones lasted longer than the company did. (Probably not a lot of repeat business)
     
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